Willian: Page 4 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Willian

goon

They've changed it to say that we've offered 3 years and he wants an optional 4th.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to these reports. Everyone was certain Luiz was on a two year deal and it only became evident that it was 1+1 in the last couple of months. That being said, the main sticking point with Chelsea seems to be over the length of the deal so 3yrs is probably right.

Claudius

It's not what he's being offered that is important. It's that he's part of the plan.

Kia has us by the privates. I'm sure when he presents to investors, he draws Arsenal as a subsidiary of his holiding company structure

QuincyAbeyie

Gunner89 wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Imagine if Auba doesn't sign due to disagreements regarding wages. We'll literally have sold Auba and given his wages to Willian.

Nonsense.

Willian's wages are covered by Mkhi terminating his deal with us/spending next season at Roma where he's tearing it up.

If we let Auba go because of wages and sign Willian on high wages we could've not signed Willian and kept Auba. Do you dispute that?

goon

Claudius wrote:
It's not what he's being offered that is important. It's that he's part of the plan.

Kia has us by the privates. I'm sure when he presents to investors, he draws Arsenal as a subsidiary of his holiding company structure

So you don’t think he’s someone Arteta wants?

Claudius

goon wrote:
Claudius wrote:
It's not what he's being offered that is important. It's that he's part of the plan.

Kia has us by the privates. I'm sure when he presents to investors, he draws Arsenal as a subsidiary of his holiding company structure

So you don’t think he’s someone Arteta wants?

I just think Kia has too much an inside track.

In terms of the team, Willian can be useful. In a 433, if our wide men are Aubameyang, Pépé, Willian, Saka and Martinelli, then that is a deep and diverse set of players. It gives us 3 prime players while the 2 kids develop. Also gives you flexibility to rotate Aubameyang or Martinelli into 9 once in a while as needed.

If we sign him at his current salary of £120k/wk, we get him at TCO of £18m for 3 years, or one Ozil year.

Captain

Arteta isn't choosing players if the new structure is working the way it should. He tells them positionally what he is after and they deliver the goods.

This was the whole point of the restructure.

Claudius

Captain wrote:
Arteta isn't choosing players if the new structure is working the way it should. He tells them positionally what he is after and they deliver the goods.

This was the whole point of the restructure.

And it should work more or less the same, no.
If we are working like a well-oiled machine, I would imagine it's something like

Arteta and Edu are clear on what the short-to-medium term playing structure and formations look like
They then know what the ideal player profiles to staff those formations are
Those player profiles can then be used to create the overall squad management plan, including which types of players need to be recruited and who to sell

If things are in sync, then the only thing holding back our recruiting should be funds. If things aren't in sync, then we will get the entire recruiting wrong. One hopes Willian is an outcome of things being in sync

goon

Claudius wrote:
goon wrote:
So you don’t think he’s someone Arteta wants?

I just think Kia has too much an inside track.

I mean yeah, it can't be healthy that all your options seemingly come from the clients of one man.

On the other hand, I imagine we get our serious, proper targets the normal way via good scouting and homework (e.g. Partay), while cheap fixes like Cedric, Luiz and Willian will be presented to Arteta. If he approves, then I honestly don't see the problem.

Captain

If it works how it works at every other club who follow that model, Arteta has minimal input in the actual players signed. That's just how it works, whether it's optimal or not.

He'll go, I want a right back, and someone will get him a right back, end of.

goon

I think it was made clear that Arteta does have an input, and quite a big one. I can't remember where I read/heard that.

I think you need them to be in sync, there's no point signing a player that doesn't fit the profile. You end up with an Emery/Pepe scenario where because he wasn't his choice he ends up on the bench.

edit: here we go -

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/arteta-final-say-transfers-arsenal-little-margin-for-error/hrio5f1u5n2y119t3640234ux

"I know that the situation that we have at the club and the context that we are in, but the club knows my plan," the Spaniard told Sky Sports.

"In January, the situation was that we had to fill some gaps and give some stability to the squad. Now is the moment to make another step forward and improve the squad and the players that we have."

Quizzed on whether he will have the final say on any deals this summer, Arteta added: "Yes, absolutely.

"We have a very strong group [working on signings] and the communication is really clear, not only with [head of football] Raul [Sanllehi], [managing director] Vinai [Venkatesham], [contract negotiator] Huss [Fahmy] and [technical director] Edu, but also with the ownership about where we want to go.

"The margin for error is very, very small.

"The gap between the two top teams and the rest is really, really big and everybody is trying to catch up. The competition is between six, seven, eight, maybe even nine clubs now to fight for those positions, so we have to be very smart and we have to be very decisive when we make our decisions."

lorddulaarsenal

Excellent signing

Claudius

goon wrote:
Claudius wrote:
I just think Kia has too much an inside track.

I mean yeah, it can't be healthy that all your options seemingly come from the clients of one man.

On the other hand, I imagine we get our serious, proper targets the normal way via good scouting and homework (e.g. Partay), while cheap fixes like Cedric, Luiz and Willian will be presented to Arteta. If he approves, then I honestly don't see the problem.

That said, we got Martinelli, Tierney, Pépé, and Saliba off other sources last summer. And they seem half decent.

Captain

goon wrote:
I think it was made clear that Arteta does have an input, and quite a big one. I can't remember where I read/heard that.

I think you need them to be in sync, there's no point signing a player that doesn't fit the profile. You end up with an Emery/Pepe scenario where because he wasn't his choice he ends up on the bench.

edit: here we go -

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/arteta-final-say-transfers-arsenal-little-margin-for-error/hrio5f1u5n2y119t3640234ux

"I know that the situation that we have at the club and the context that we are in, but the club knows my plan," the Spaniard told Sky Sports.

"In January, the situation was that we had to fill some gaps and give some stability to the squad. Now is the moment to make another step forward and improve the squad and the players that we have."

Quizzed on whether he will have the final say on any deals this summer, Arteta added: "Yes, absolutely.

"We have a very strong group [working on signings] and the communication is really clear, not only with [head of football] Raul [Sanllehi], [managing director] Vinai [Venkatesham], [contract negotiator] Huss [Fahmy] and [technical director] Edu, but also with the ownership about where we want to go.

"The margin for error is very, very small.

"The gap between the two top teams and the rest is really, really big and everybody is trying to catch up. The competition is between six, seven, eight, maybe even nine clubs now to fight for those positions, so we have to be very smart and we have to be very decisive when we make our decisions."

That's all nice and that, but do you actually think Arteta identified Mari as his left footed centrehalf?

There's a company line and there's reality - the two do sometimes cross paths

Gunner89

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Gunner89 wrote:
Nonsense.

Willian's wages are covered by Mkhi terminating his deal with us/spending next season at Roma where he's tearing it up.

If we let Auba go because of wages and sign Willian on high wages we could've not signed Willian and kept Auba. Do you dispute that?

Yes.

Auba is already on 200k a week.

Whatever extra he wants if it's something not utterly obscene would obviously be financially possible for the club.

Auba's contract is less about Arsenal being able to afford it rather more about him wanting to stay with what we offer AND what the club think is a justified expense (For eg. 400k probably is not a justified expense for any club bar China/Middle east/PSG).

Claudius

Also we can't just give Aubameyang whatever he wants. We need to chase Ozil away. And set new salary maximum guidelines. If we put 300-350k in Aubameyang's hands, that will just keep us under pressure from other players in future wanting to get paid right.

Kel Varnsen

Captain wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
Really don't get this. When we got Sokratis I said we'd regret getting him over the younger defenders we are linked with and within a year that was obvious.

3 year deal on huge wages will set us back quite a bit with fuck all resale value when what we really need now is to build squad value step by step.

Laca to Juve is seriously making the rounds. Why not get Bernadeschi or Douglas Costa from there?

Maybe the thinking is that in a season or two we will have first team ready options, but they aren't quite there yet. So, for now, to help us move forward we only need a stop gap, rather than a long term signing.

Agree with that. Willian is a good player who will probably contribute decently for 1-2 years.

Klaus

Claudius wrote:
Also we can't just give Aubameyang whatever he wants.

But we can give Willian what Chelsea don't want to give him evidently.

The club better announce that Auba has penned a new deal if they're gonna pull this stunt.

lorddulaarsenal

Spills so much sauce

Gunner89

Signing Silvestre is a stunt and to an extent Welbeck and Luiz.

These were clearly expendables as is Pedro who's going to Roma and wasn't offered a new deal.

Willian is someone they do want to keep but they are spending 160m on attacking signings (50m werner, 30 Ziyech and 80m Havertz).

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

He's fast, fit and technical. I'll take him to tide us over while we address the midfield.

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