They've changed it to say that we've offered 3 years and he wants an optional 4th.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to these reports. Everyone was certain Luiz was on a two year deal and it only became evident that it was 1+1 in the last couple of months. That being said, the main sticking point with Chelsea seems to be over the length of the deal so 3yrs is probably right.

It's not what he's being offered that is important. It's that he's part of the plan.

Kia has us by the privates. I'm sure when he presents to investors, he draws Arsenal as a subsidiary of his holiding company structure

Gunner89 wrote:

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

Imagine if Auba doesn't sign due to disagreements regarding wages. We'll literally have sold Auba and given his wages to Willian.

Nonsense.

Willian's wages are covered by Mkhi terminating his deal with us/spending next season at Roma where he's tearing it up.

If we let Auba go because of wages and sign Willian on high wages we could've not signed Willian and kept Auba. Do you dispute that? 

Claudius wrote:

It's not what he's being offered that is important. It's that he's part of the plan.

Kia has us by the privates. I'm sure when he presents to investors, he draws Arsenal as a subsidiary of his holiding company structure

So you don’t think he’s someone Arteta wants?

goon wrote:

Claudius wrote:

It's not what he's being offered that is important. It's that he's part of the plan.

Kia has us by the privates. I'm sure when he presents to investors, he draws Arsenal as a subsidiary of his holiding company structure

So you don’t think he’s someone Arteta wants?

I just think Kia has too much an inside track. 

In terms of the team, Willian can be useful. In a 433, if our wide men are Aubameyang, Pépé, Willian, Saka and Martinelli, then that is a deep and diverse set of players. It gives us 3 prime players while the 2 kids develop. Also gives you flexibility to rotate Aubameyang or Martinelli into 9 once in a while as needed. 

If we sign him at his current salary of £120k/wk, we get him at TCO of £18m for 3 years, or one Ozil year. 

Arteta isn't choosing players if the new structure is working the way it should. He tells them positionally what he is after and they deliver the goods.

This was the whole point of the restructure.

Captain wrote:

Arteta isn't choosing players if the new structure is working the way it should. He tells them positionally what he is after and they deliver the goods.

This was the whole point of the restructure.

And it should work more or less the same, no. 
If we are working like a well-oiled machine, I would imagine it's something like 

• Arteta and Edu are clear on what the short-to-medium term playing structure and formations look like 
• They then know what the ideal player profiles to staff those formations are 
• Those player profiles can then be used to create the overall squad management plan, including which types of players need to be recruited and who to sell 

If things are in sync, then the only thing holding back our recruiting should be funds. If things aren't in sync, then we will get the entire recruiting wrong. One hopes Willian is an outcome of things being in sync

Claudius wrote:

goon wrote:

So you don’t think he’s someone Arteta wants?

I just think Kia has too much an inside track. 

I mean yeah, it can't be healthy that all your options seemingly come from the clients of one man.

On the other hand, I imagine we get our serious, proper targets the normal way via good scouting and homework (e.g. Partay), while cheap fixes like Cedric, Luiz and Willian will be presented to Arteta. If he approves, then I honestly don't see the problem.

If it works how it works at every other club who follow that model, Arteta has minimal input in the actual players signed. That's just how it works, whether it's optimal or not.

He'll go, I want a right back, and someone will get him a right back, end of.

I think it was made clear that Arteta does have an input, and quite a big one. I can't remember where I read/heard that.

I think you need them to be in sync, there's no point signing a player that doesn't fit the profile. You end up with an Emery/Pepe scenario where because he wasn't his choice he ends up on the bench.

edit: here we go -

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/arteta-final-say-transfers-arsenal-little-margin-for-error/hrio5f1u5n2y119t3640234ux

"I know that the situation that we have at the club and the context that we are in, but the club knows my plan," the Spaniard told Sky Sports.

"In January, the situation was that we had to fill some gaps and give some stability to the squad. Now is the moment to make another step forward and improve the squad and the players that we have."

Quizzed on whether he will have the final say on any deals this summer, Arteta added: "Yes, absolutely.

"We have a very strong group [working on signings] and the communication is really clear, not only with [head of football] Raul [Sanllehi], [managing director] Vinai [Venkatesham], [contract negotiator] Huss [Fahmy] and [technical director] Edu, but also with the ownership about where we want to go.

"The margin for error is very, very small.

"The gap between the two top teams and the rest is really, really big and everybody is trying to catch up. The competition is between six, seven, eight, maybe even nine clubs now to fight for those positions, so we have to be very smart and we have to be very decisive when we make our decisions."

Excellent signing

goon wrote:

Claudius wrote:

I just think Kia has too much an inside track. 

I mean yeah, it can't be healthy that all your options seemingly come from the clients of one man.

On the other hand, I imagine we get our serious, proper targets the normal way via good scouting and homework (e.g. Partay), while cheap fixes like Cedric, Luiz and Willian will be presented to Arteta. If he approves, then I honestly don't see the problem.

That said, we got Martinelli, Tierney, Pépé, and Saliba off other sources last summer. And they seem half decent. 

goon wrote:

I think it was made clear that Arteta does have an input, and quite a big one. I can't remember where I read/heard that.

I think you need them to be in sync, there's no point signing a player that doesn't fit the profile. You end up with an Emery/Pepe scenario where because he wasn't his choice he ends up on the bench.

edit: here we go -

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/arteta-final-say-transfers-arsenal-little-margin-for-error/hrio5f1u5n2y119t3640234ux

"I know that the situation that we have at the club and the context that we are in, but the club knows my plan," the Spaniard told Sky Sports.

"In January, the situation was that we had to fill some gaps and give some stability to the squad. Now is the moment to make another step forward and improve the squad and the players that we have."

Quizzed on whether he will have the final say on any deals this summer, Arteta added: "Yes, absolutely.

"We have a very strong group [working on signings] and the communication is really clear, not only with [head of football] Raul [Sanllehi], [managing director] Vinai [Venkatesham], [contract negotiator] Huss [Fahmy] and [technical director] Edu, but also with the ownership about where we want to go.

"The margin for error is very, very small.

"The gap between the two top teams and the rest is really, really big and everybody is trying to catch up. The competition is between six, seven, eight, maybe even nine clubs now to fight for those positions, so we have to be very smart and we have to be very decisive when we make our decisions."

That's all nice and that, but do you actually think Arteta identified Mari as his left footed centrehalf?

There's a company line and there's reality - the two do sometimes cross paths 

Also we can't just give Aubameyang whatever he wants. We need to chase Ozil away. And set new salary maximum guidelines. If we put 300-350k in Aubameyang's hands, that will just keep us under pressure from other players in future wanting to get paid right.

Captain wrote:

Clrnc wrote:

Really don't get this. When we got Sokratis I said we'd regret getting him over the younger defenders we are linked with and within a year that was obvious.

3 year deal on huge wages will set us back quite a bit with fuck all resale value when what we really need now is to build squad value step by step.

Laca to Juve is seriously making the rounds. Why not get Bernadeschi or Douglas Costa from there?

Maybe the thinking is that in a season or two we will have first team ready options, but they aren't quite there yet. So, for now, to help us move forward we only need a stop gap, rather than a long term signing.

Agree with that. Willian is a good player who will probably contribute decently for 1-2 years.

Claudius wrote:

Also we can't just give Aubameyang whatever he wants.

But we can give Willian what Chelsea don't want to give him evidently.

The club better announce that Auba has penned a new deal if they're gonna pull this stunt.

Spills so much sauce

He's fast, fit and technical. I'll take him to tide us over while we address the midfield.

I think Willian will primarily be used on the left.

He’ll help our possession game

Gunner89 wrote:

Signing Silvestre is a stunt and to an extent Welbeck and Luiz.

These were clearly expendables as is Pedro who's going to Roma and wasn't offered a new deal.

Willian is someone they do want to keep but they are spending 160m on attacking signings (50m werner, 30 Ziyech and 80m Havertz).

It's kinda sad to see the kind of quality Chelsea is signing to improve their squad further and United. Even City is super smart with Ferran Torres signing for just 20m+.

We keep signing used goods from other clubs when in reality we need a much bigger step to catch the clubs who are already quite a distance ahead of us.

We better be saving our ammo for other young and top signings if we are settling for Willian on the wings

Captain wrote:

goon wrote:

I think it was made clear that Arteta does have an input, and quite a big one. I can't remember where I read/heard that.

I think you need them to be in sync, there's no point signing a player that doesn't fit the profile. You end up with an Emery/Pepe scenario where because he wasn't his choice he ends up on the bench.

edit: here we go -

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/arteta-final-say-transfers-arsenal-little-margin-for-error/hrio5f1u5n2y119t3640234ux

"I know that the situation that we have at the club and the context that we are in, but the club knows my plan," the Spaniard told Sky Sports.

"In January, the situation was that we had to fill some gaps and give some stability to the squad. Now is the moment to make another step forward and improve the squad and the players that we have."

Quizzed on whether he will have the final say on any deals this summer, Arteta added: "Yes, absolutely.

"We have a very strong group [working on signings] and the communication is really clear, not only with [head of football] Raul [Sanllehi], [managing director] Vinai [Venkatesham], [contract negotiator] Huss [Fahmy] and [technical director] Edu, but also with the ownership about where we want to go.

"The margin for error is very, very small.

"The gap between the two top teams and the rest is really, really big and everybody is trying to catch up. The competition is between six, seven, eight, maybe even nine clubs now to fight for those positions, so we have to be very smart and we have to be very decisive when we make our decisions."

That's all nice and that, but do you actually think Arteta identified Mari as his left footed centrehalf?

There's a company line and there's reality - the two do sometimes cross paths 

Identified no (though he may well have given they were both at City). But I also think it’s natural that if you’re trying to find the manager a certain profile of player that he has a say in whether or not he approves. In reality the situation is probably much more fluid.

I think a successful squad build depends on Edu and the head coach working very closely together.

[/Twitter]

Unbelievably bad deal if we end up giving 4 four years

Sounds like a terrible idea. Hope it doesnt happen..

Seems like it's pretty much done. Oh well. ESPN Brasil reporting that we will announce him in the coming days and there's no chance he will play for Chelsea again. 3 year deal +1 year option.

Seriously rather loan Coutinho.

---------------Partey
---Ceballos--------Coutinho
Pepe--------------------------Willian
-----------Aubameyang

Seems like I’m the only one pleased with this signing.

I know my players and especially my wide forwards. He’ll be a great addition for us.

Ray wrote:

---------------Partey
---Ceballos--------Coutinho
Pepe--------------------------Willian
-----------Aubameyang

That's actually decent. Would need for Coutinho to work hard. Those 4 AMs can actually hold possession quite well together. So this would probably be a high territory team that would require fast centre backs. So you're probably fine with some combination of 2 of Luiz, Saliba or Mustafi for now.

The one challenge is you would have 3 important players (Ceballos, Coutinho, Willian) who are in the build up and are either on loan or old. Not ideal for squad building

I suppose the idea is that when they leave/fade the likes of Saka, Martinelli, Willock, ESR etc. can potentially step up and take their place.

Agreed however that the line-up above looks decent. We'd play some sexy football and be entertaining at the very least.

With Willian on the left and Pepe on the right we’d have players who attract opponents to them and therefore leave space for others.

Both can cut in and play through balls or shoot well

I wonder if it is Willian and Coutinho we are after, or just one of the two.

Personally think Coutinho and Willian play a little too similarily, and occopy the same space (when Willian starts on the left). Don't want anything to do with Coutinho, coming around to Willian.

3 + 1 years is crazy. Kia has done us up like a kipper if we give him that. The feeling of being chelseas retirement home rankles as well

Willian is a solid pro. He's not a flash player, but he's efficient enough, and will probably also play a role in setting a workrate template for our other forwards

Im struggling to get behind this deal in isolation. Hopefully auba and partey are next

3+1 is mental. I actually can't believe we'd do that.

A 2 year deal I can suck up as the financial reality of our club but 3 years of Willian is unnecessary.

Claudius wrote:

Ray wrote:

---------------Partey
---Ceballos--------Coutinho
Pepe--------------------------Willian
-----------Aubameyang

That's actually decent. Would need for Coutinho to work hard. Those 4 AMs can actually hold possession quite well together. So this would probably be a high territory team that would require fast centre backs. So you're probably fine with some combination of 2 of Luiz, Saliba or Mustafi for now.

The one challenge is you would have 3 important players (Ceballos, Coutinho, Willian) who are in the build up and are either on loan or old. Not ideal for squad building

Also has the look of MC-lite.
Perhaps not as flashy as the likes of LFC, MC, CFC or MU, but no one thought LFC looked the goods initially.

I think this team could push for top4 based upon their PL experience and their experience in general - particularly if they are able to hit the ground running at the start of the season and establish a break on the other contenders.  Perhaps more realistically it is capable of winning the UEL against anything that is likely to be 'relegated' from the UCL.

If these players did secure top4/UCL then I'd have little issue with signing the likes of Ceballos and Coutinho, and that would be at an agreed fee as part of the loan deal.  If these players are what Arteta wants in order to impliment his style then so be it.  

Also just an observation, if we were to also then sign Costa/Gabriel we'd have a very Brazilian flavor/core with 5 players in the senior squad, which would also give us a higher profile to other players from there = sign of things to come?