Arsenal - West Ham | Saturday, 3:00pm | Sirloin steak w hasselback potatoes: Page 18 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal - West Ham | Saturday, 3:00pm | Sirloin steak w hasselback potatoes

QuincyAbeyie

Like Qwiss says, there's a big talent gap. Saka has probably shown more end product this season than AMN has done since he started playing as a fullback for us.

Ricky1985

Klaus wrote:
goon wrote:
Anyway, I would have thought the best way to make sure you get a chance in your favoured position is do everything you can for the club out of position. If it still doesn't happen for you, then you'd be fully justified in looking for a move elsewhere. But you certainly don't do yourself any favours by getting in the managers bad books.

Who knows what's been said and what hasn't though. What we do know is that he did what was asked for him out of position for two years and got absolutely fuck-all playing time in any preferred position as a reward. Maybe he made it clear to a new manager that he wanted to play as a midfielder after having been used for two years as a makeshift leftback and then a rightback, and Arteta didn't like that when he's thin on fullbacks. I don't really blame him either way.

People praise Saka right now for keeping his head down but he has played there for like two months, and he's already telling people that he doesn't see his future there. He's not going to be happy either in two years time if he has to play as a fullback on either flank depending on injuries while Martinelli is tearing it up on the left wing.

Saka will if he's being hailed as a top class left back, starting for Arsenal and England. And the tragedy is, as you and I both believe, firmly in the minority as we may be, Maitland-Niles could have perhaps done the same thing had he grasped his chance to play for Arsenal in the past 2 years.

Imagine if he had put his head down and worked on his weaknesses as a right back whilst Bellerin wasn't around, whilst he was getting invaluable experience every week at a good team toward the top of the Premier League? He could have become some player. Instead he thought he was above it, didn't improve a single aspect of his game and whinged and moaned publicly about wanting to be a right winger. And here we are.

Klaus

Ricky1985 wrote:
Saka will if he's being hailed as a top class left back, starting for Arsenal and England. And the tragedy is, as you and I both believe, firmly in the minority as we may be, Maitland-Niles could have perhaps done the same thing had he grasped his chance to play for Arsenal in the past 2 years.

Imagine if he had put his head down and worked on his weaknesses as a right back whilst Bellerin wasn't around, whilst he was getting invaluable experience every week at a good team toward the top of the Premier League? He could have become some player.

Yeah, but I also think he could be a pretty good midfielder. It all depends on the player's motivation in the end, you can't force anyone into a utility role and think they'll just accept it forever. There has to be some encouragement and letting them grow into it, especially with young players. Self-belief is what makes them good to begin with.

I wrote this somewhere else the other day, but I'm sure Maitland-Niles would have been more open to play fullback if he'd gotten a look in at any other position where he feels he's better suited in the last two years. It reminds me in a way of how we were so hellbent on turning Coquelin into a rightback at one point that Craig Eastmond got starts in Champions League ahead of him.

I just think it's funny that Guendouzi, who is fundamentally ill-suited for any kind of football that requires game intelligence, has played 76 games for us during that same time. I know he was heavily favoured by Emery, but he's not by Arteta. I don't think it's wrong at all for Maitland-Niles to ask for opportunities elsewhere from a new manager. His reaction to Arteta's response might not have been ideal; I have genuinely no idea, but I don't blame him at all for wanting to play a bit in midfield.

Meatwad

shit players get binned everyday.

Qwiss

Klaus wrote:
I just think it's funny that Guendouzi, who is fundamentally ill-suited for any kind of football that requires game intelligence, has played 76 games for us during that same time.

Maitland-Niles is 2 years old than Douzi and not half the player he is. Thats why he doesn't get a start in midfield.

jones

Klaus wrote:
. I don't think it's wrong at all for Maitland-Niles to ask for opportunities elsewhere from a new manager.

I strongly disagree about there being no difference between Guendouzi and AMN, the former has shown far more there than the latter ever did but that's subjective.

What I think is hardly up for personal taste or debate is that the manager calls the shots. AMN can go home dreaming about playing GK for all I care he's not the manager he's a player and a dumb one at that his preference doesn't matter. Since when have players become good judges on where to field them, Theo thought for 10+ years that he should be a CF, Ox hilariously still believes hes a CM. And it's not like Arteta or Emery picked Eto'o and told him to play full back they're putting a kid with no experience and a severe lack of focus to play in a position where he could learn while not causing too much damage to his team.

Kimmich was a midfielder by trade too before consecutive Bayern managers fielded him at RB for years until recently he made the move back to CM, as one of the best full backs in Europe too and he never made any noises to the press about it too. Yet AMN thinks he has the right to "score and assist goals as a winger". We're playing a 32 year old centre half at RB, Auba at LW, Laca went from a pretty lethal striker to a dull numb battering ram here, Xhaka played LB pretty often yet this fucking kid thinks he's in any position to make demands.

jones

What's even more infuriating is that these young bellends always ask for a position more in the limelight. Walcott was a good winger but just had to be the main man while lacking almost everything strikers have. Ox even compared to other wide players was brainless but gives interviews saying he wants to be Steven Gerrard. Even Wilshere talking about being #10 while his end product was non existent

Shows that these little pricks think about their personal glory first and foremost.

Meatwad

jones wrote:
What's even more infuriating is that these young bellends always ask for a position more in the limelight. Walcott was a good winger but just had to be the main man while lacking almost everything strikers have. Ox even compared to other wide players was brainless but gives interviews saying he wants to be Steven Gerrard. Even Wilshere talking about being #10 while his end product was non existent

Shows that these little pricks think about their personal glory first and foremost.

the minute they start talking that shit i dismiss 'em because they are clearly delusional and not about winning.

speedy

Qwiss! wrote:
Klaus wrote:
I just think it's funny that Guendouzi, who is fundamentally ill-suited for any kind of football that requires game intelligence, has played 76 games for us during that same time.

Maitland-Niles is 2 years old than Douzi and not half the player he is. Thats why he doesn't get a start in midfield.

This is true. Can't believe he thinks hes a right midfielder he's combination play was never good enough to progress the ball down the right when he was playing at RB it'd want to be twice as good to play right midfield. He's just a shit coq. Who also looked great against United several times. It's often just that type of game where the scrappy runner looks really good. Park used to run all day and score like pele against us.

Ricky1985

Ornstein (and Gunnerblog) has had some more to say on Maitland-Niles:

David Ornstein: Ainsley Maitland-Niles could be done for at Arsenal

The future of Ainsley Maitland-Niles at Arsenal looks to be under threat after he fell out of favour with boss Mikel Arteta.

The 22-year-old was left out of the squad for Saturday’s clash against West Ham United, with Sokratis, a centre-back, chosen to play ahead of him again at right-back with Hector Bellerin still not fully fit.

According to The Athletic’s James McNicholas, Arteta still has concerns over Maitland-Niles’ concentration, and it appears things have also gone sour behind the scenes.

The Athletic’s David Ornstein reveals that some disciplinary issues and the player’s preference to play in midfield may have also contributed to his lack of playing minutes of recent, and some people around Arsenal feel that he could be done for at the North London club as a result.
. . .
“People are saying but where is Ainsley Maitland-Niles who was occupying that position for a bit? I heard some suggestions a long time ago now that he had expressed a desire or preference not to be playing at right-back as he favours a central midfield position,” the Athletic journalist said on The Ornstein & Chapman Podcast.

“And Mikel Arteta isn’t receptive to players indicating where they want to play, they would play where they are told to play for the good of the team, and since then, I don’t know the exact conversation that has gone on, but he hasn’t been playing very much, and then one of the suggestions I got is that he has been late for a couple of training sessions and certainly Arteta wouldn’t like that given the disciple and behaviour and respect culture is so important to him.

“And some people around Arsenal feel that he could be done for, Ainsley Maitland-Niles at Arsenal. We don’t know for a fact, I’m just reflecting suggestions I’ve heard.”

https://sportslens.com/david-ornstein-ainsley-maitland-niles-could-be-done-for-at-arsenal/289570/

Perhaps we can't take this as fact, but it rings true for me.

Claudius

Sounds like a re-hash of the same things we’ve been hearing for the last few months. It does appear he’s finished. Otherwise we wouldn’t be playing a wooden centreback at right back and hurting the team in the process. I hope he gets a good mentor wherever he goes next and sorts out his professional and personal affairs. Would be a pity for all that talent to go to waste

Klaus

Ricky1985 wrote:
“And Mikel Arteta isn’t receptive to players indicating where they want to play, they would play where they are told to play for the good of the team

Unai, is that you?

Burnwinter

I can sort of live with this kind of thing from established first team players who are performing quite well and have a reason for it. Never really minded it that much from Walcott.

It's a different matter when it's a surly fringe player who's stalled a bit in his development. Disrespectful to the other outfield players among other things. Calling the response "Arteta imposing discipline" is almost over-egging it, it's an easy decision to leave out a recalcitrant.

QuincyAbeyie

Don't think it's Unai-exclusive to think players should play where they are told.

Clrnc

He used to say he heard from sources, now simply suggestions.

I mean anyone could guess those reasons he mentioned

jones

Burnwinter wrote:
I can sort of live with this kind of thing from established first team players who are performing quite well and have a reason for it. Never really minded it that much from Walcott.

It's a different matter when it's a surly fringe player who's stalled a bit in his development. Disrespectful to the other outfield players among other things. Calling the response "Arteta imposing discipline" is almost over-egging it, it's an easy decision to leave out a recalcitrant.

Even established players have no business to make claims to where they play. Look at Pep and City bar Ederson pretty much every player there has been told to play a different position. Walker and Fernandinho have become CBs, KDB has played plenty of positions, the other day Jesus played LW with Bernardo up front. Guardiola even wanted to play Neuer in CM after the league was already won at Bayern ffs, you play where the coach plays you and if he thinks you're better elsewhere you follow suit and shut up. It's not just presumptuous to think he knows better than the coach, it's also poor form and rude to his team mates.

Claudius

jones wrote:
Burnwinter wrote:
I can sort of live with this kind of thing from established first team players who are performing quite well and have a reason for it. Never really minded it that much from Walcott.

It's a different matter when it's a surly fringe player who's stalled a bit in his development. Disrespectful to the other outfield players among other things. Calling the response "Arteta imposing discipline" is almost over-egging it, it's an easy decision to leave out a recalcitrant.

Even established players have no business to make claims to where they play. Look at Pep and City bar Ederson pretty much every player there has been told to play a different position. Walker and Fernandinho have become CBs, KDB has played plenty of positions, the other day Jesus played LW with Bernardo up front. Guardiola even wanted to play Neuer in CM after the league was already won at Bayern ffs, you play where the coach plays you and if he thinks you're better elsewhere you follow suit and shut up. It's not just presumptuous to think he knows better than the coach, it's also poor form and rude to his team mates.

Aubameyang has just put his head down and gotten on with being a winger. He sprints up and down the wing like a thoroughbred. Team comes first. If the player is ill-suited to a position, like Torreira in a roving role, that's a different situation, but players need to set their egos aside and prioritise the greater good. If AMN is a me-first player, then Arteta is right to sacrifice him

Bosscielny

If Bournemouth though Jordan Ibe was worth 15 mill and Solanke 20 than we should be able to get at least 35 for AMN.

Send him packing with a buy back clause and let him be someone else's problem.

Jed

Jan 17, 2018:

“I’d say I’m more of a box-to-box midfielder but the boss sees me in more of a Coquelin role, holding midfield and trying to break up the play,” he told Arsenal Player. “It’s about trying to keep the ball and scoring the odd goal here and there.

“I believe I could play as a traditional English No 4, an English No 8, anywhere around that middle part of the pitch. I’ve had a lot of things on Twitter comparing me to Patrick Vieira you know.

“I do see why they say that because he was good at reading the game, very good technically, a great passer and he’d love a challenge as well. I’m not shy of one either. Whoever anyone wants to compare me to, I’d always look to surpass them. Bring on the challenge really!

“It’s just experience and gametime on the pitch, playing out of position,” he added. “If you can play out of position well, then nothing’s going to stop you when you’re playing in your rightful position.

Jan 11, 2019:

“I’d like to be a winger. I feel comfortable there and I’ve been playing there this season.

“I was a striker growing up. Thierry Henry was the perfect role model at the time.

“Then everybody started growing but I was still a bit short. As I was still quick, direct and could run at players they thought they would put me on the wing.

“So up until the age of 16 I was a winger.”

“I like to think of myself as a winger at 25 years old, starting every week for Arsenal, scoring and assisting goals.

“I don’t feel like I’m there. I’m still young and I have a lot of learning to do.”

He’s delusional.

flobaba

Shit player. We know how to hype these fools unnecessarily.

Don’t let the doorknob hit ya

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