https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/12273467/chelesa-arsenal-fa-cup-final-cesc-fabregas/
Fabregas with some good points on Arteta
Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.
Claudius wrote:https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/12273467/chelesa-arsenal-fa-cup-final-cesc-fabregas/
Fabregas with some good points on Arteta
[size=medium][font=TheSun, sans-serif]Fabregas added: “I hope he does it. I don’t really know Mikel that well. He has his style. But I don’t think it is one to win ugly."[/font][/size]
[size=medium][font=TheSun, sans-serif]Would have thought the S/F win over MC would have answered this following on from a similar performance and result v LFC.[/font][/size]
I’d say most of our wins have been very ugly. Cesc is falling into the trap of Arteta worked for Pep so he must be Pep.
But Arteta has also said he cannot play like Pep given his resources, and said that he needs money to have one of those title-winning squads. It is quite easy to infer from his many press conferences that he is being pragmatic given the resources he has, and would like more resources to create his preferred squad. I'm not sure what 'ugly' is exactly, but Arteta is managing under constraints.
We aren't going to play Pepball full stop, Pepball barely works in the PL and he has spent an astronomical amount. We can't spend like that to try and implement such a flawed system. At some level Arteta is going to have to work with what he has. So far he's been trying to figure that out and a few recruits to suit his system will hopefully help. Its going to be hard to play consistently beautiful football at our current level and I think Arteta has shown he's pragmatic about that. He needs to improve it though, our lack of creativity is a real problem.
Pep ball set a points record. So it can work.
Hopefully we play something closer to peak Wenger / Klopp ball. I would like to see that. But it means we have to recruit accordingly. A Willian might work. But a Coutinho seems odd in this context.
Anything can work when you spend ludicrous amounts of money. When Mourinho was outspending everyone he managed to win the title with the then points record and he played Allerdici-ball.
Claudius wrote:Pep ball set a points record. So it can work.
Hopefully we play something closer to peak Wenger / Klopp ball. I would like to see that. But it means we have to recruit accordingly. A Willian might work. But a Coutinho seems odd in this context.
If you mean peak AW as being seen during The Highbury Years style of power, pace, and movement then I agree that Coutinho seems at odds to that style. However Arteta has alluded to preferring a possession style looking to play in the opposition half, which is more akin to when he was at both clubs as player and then assistant, in which case Coutinho is likely to be a better fit than we have seen from Ozil since the season he got his current deal.
IF all goes according to plan & we qualify for UEL next season, then best case scenario would be if we were able to retain both PEA and Laca, as well as adding the likes of Partey and Coutinho into a 3 man midfield alongside Ceballos. IF one of PEA/Laca departed I can see Coutinho potentially as a wide playmaker on the left of a front 3 with PEA/Laca and Pepe, or CAM in a 4231 ahead of Partey and Ceballos as twin pivots & Saka/Martinelli as LWF.
This is what we need to do. Arteta needs to lay out his plan and get to executing it. And I don’t want to hear “oh, but we aren’t going to sell Coutinho! We aren’t going to sell Coutinho!” In 2 1/2 years Klopp completely changed that entire team. It wasn’t down to one man. During the last 5 years we outspent him on net transfers. We just need to be patient, stop chasing 4th and declare an ambition to win the title in 3 to 4 years. And then you stop chasing the likes of Coutinho and Willian and start building a proper squad. And as you can see, they don’t all have to be glamorous acquisitions. Many of Pool’s most important players weren’t - eg Winjaldum and Robertson, and the promotion of Trent. Just buying very efficiently against a set template.
For starters we need to keep the players useful to us. Like keep AMN and sell Bellerin for example.
The most important thing is to sign players that can play the football we want, not just good players.
Agree with that, and would also dump Bellerin over AMN.
Maitland Niles is faster than Bellerin btw
Top ten in league this year, Dules
Claudius wrote:This is what we need to do. Arteta needs to lay out his plan and get to executing it. And I don’t want to hear “oh, but we aren’t going to sell Coutinho! We aren’t going to sell Coutinho!” In 2 1/2 years Klopp completely changed that entire team. It wasn’t down to one man. During the last 5 years we outspent him on net transfers. We just need to be patient, stop chasing 4th and declare an ambition to win the title in 3 to 4 years. And then you stop chasing the likes of Coutinho and Willian and start building a proper squad. And as you can see, they don’t all have to be glamorous acquisitions. Many of Pool’s most important players weren’t - eg Winjaldum and Robertson, and the promotion of Trent. Just buying very efficiently against a set template.
Fully agree. We need to say it clearly that we are building a project to take us back to the top.
The issue here is what we think that entails, and what Arteta believes that entails. A lot of rumours out there that he is the one who really wants Coutinho.
If we can implement a pressing system, it would the first step. Second step, would be to be a bit more clever on the ball than Liverpool. I don’t think their mad rush style is really applicable anywhere else, and they have two wingers and full backs who virtually are perfect for that way of playing. No one else should really try to copy it.
Whatever the result later on, this summer promises to be highly interesting one.
Claudius wrote:This is what we need to do. Arteta needs to lay out his plan and get to executing it. And I don’t want to hear “oh, but we aren’t going to sell Coutinho! We aren’t going to sell Coutinho!” In 2 1/2 years Klopp completely changed that entire team. It wasn’t down to one man. During the last 5 years we outspent him on net transfers. We just need to be patient, stop chasing 4th and declare an ambition to win the title in 3 to 4 years. And then you stop chasing the likes of Coutinho and Willian and start building a proper squad. And as you can see, they don’t all have to be glamorous acquisitions. Many of Pool’s most important players weren’t - eg Winjaldum and Robertson, and the promotion of Trent. Just buying very efficiently against a set template.
Liverpool also improved a lot of players significantly. A lot of our recent signings seem to have regressed . Whether it's down to training, tactical setup, inability to settle etc. It needs to be rectified.
Claudius wrote:This is what we need to do. Arteta needs to lay out his plan and get to executing it. And I don’t want to hear “oh, but we aren’t going to sell Coutinho! We aren’t going to sell Coutinho!” In 2 1/2 years Klopp completely changed that entire team. It wasn’t down to one man. During the last 5 years we outspent him on net transfers. We just need to be patient, stop chasing 4th and declare an ambition to win the title in 3 to 4 years. And then you stop chasing the likes of Coutinho and Willian and start building a proper squad. And as you can see, they don’t all have to be glamorous acquisitions. Many of Pool’s most important players weren’t - eg Winjaldum and Robertson, and the promotion of Trent. Just buying very efficiently against a set template.
It's not as easy as just having a plan. You don't think Wolves have a plan? Sheffield? Spurs?
The difference is that Liverpool went out and got a proven world class manager who had already done exactly what they wanted him to do. They knew he could do it. We hired someone who had never managed a game of football by contrast. That's not slighting Arteta, but surely people realise how the circumstances aren't exactly alike. Arteta has to show he's worth backing unconditionally before we risk everything by putting all our eggs in his basket. Anything else is just stupid and a gamble with the club's existence. If he fails a complete rebuild at this stage we might never recover.
It seems to me that he has his work cut out for him. Win the FA Cup today and get into Europe, and then he can ask for proper backing this summer. Fail, and he needs to show next season that he can build something better with the pieces he's already got.
Nah, you have to back the man you hired, you can’t wait and see if he’s worth backing, that’s crazy. It’s like telling a mechanic he won’t be given any parts to fix a car until he proves he can fix a car without parts.
Edu’s is there to make sure the clubs long term vision is not compromised will be in better position to move the club forward. Otherwise you’ll be stuck in this cycle forever.
Of course you have to back the manager you hire, but you don't let them undertake a complete rebuild at their own discretion that might land us years in the wilderness outside Europe unless you know they can do it. That's insane. People who yell about tearing it all down never seem to understand the risk that is involved. Clubs crumble or get relegated all the time because they make the wrong decisions. 95 percent of the time you're not sitting on an Arsene Wenger or a Jurgen Klopp. I think Arsenal are understanding of this less than other clubs in general due to our past fortune. The difference is that Wenger could have gone to Spurs or Villa and done the same thing to them that he did to us. It wasn't just about having a plan, it was about having the right person to execute it.
I disagree, Klaus. We took a risk on Arteta. Now we need to back him immediately. If we do not back him, we risk making his job harder and not giving him the opportunity to show what he really can do. Proving what you can do with a limited squad is for guys fighting relegation. We are trying to win a title. We don't have a whole year to waste running coaching assessments.
Edit: per Goon
Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't back him. I'm saying he has to show more than he has so far if we're going to trust him to take four years to rebuild from the ground up.