• The Arsenal

  • Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.

awooga83 wrote:
Burnwinter wrote:

Basically we got the tactics fairly right and had good luck and good resolve in both matches. We'll need the same against Chelsea in the cup final.

I'm not so convinced that these are templates for the way to play. Essentially this is how the inferior team plays against a better side but more often then not you lose those games.The Liverpool game also camehcame when tbasically have us the result and difficult to read into it with the fast the season was done.

City was better but we played at the higher end of our capability and city were pretty poor finishing wide. Again that's not often going to be the case. 

The other point to me is city and Liverpool are much more dominant and I don't think Chelsea will have the same approach if you look at is you know we really struggled when we have to break teams down so throw that into the mix and it's more difficult.

So basically not sure those games shows some tactical depth because they are so reliant on luck.

Disagree we were lucky in that I disagree we simply 'parked the bus' and defended like our lives depended on it, although it may have looked like that in both 2nd halves.

Firstly Arteta denied both of them their preferred means of playing out from the back, not just by pressing but by the angles the players took up in doing so.  Secondly in terms of the defence he denied them the ability to create quality goal scoring opportunities via zone 14 to get into the golden zone inside the area.  Most times when they did manage to do so was from wide which is a low % scoring position, as was shown when Germany schooled Brazil in the WC.

speedy wrote:
Burnwinter wrote:

Basically we got the tactics fairly right and had good luck and good resolve in both matches. We'll need the same against Chelsea in the cup final.

The worry is that both of those sides seasons we're finished at that point liverpool were solid first and City solid second. They had a they gap and came back stale while we played both of those games like a cup final.

We played City in an FA Cup semi-final.

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

I think Torreira had the right profile, but it doesn't always work out. Was a beast for us for a short while in his first season, but it doesn't seem like he's quite taken to England.

I don't think Emery trying to convert him to play as ball winner high up the pitch helped him - I think he likes to be able to see the play ahead of him to get into the right position.

That's exactly how Torreira played in Italy. Pressing high, driving the ball up the field. Was always a Ramsey substitute rather than a holding midfielder. Emery's shittiness as a manager reached new levels for sure when he decided to play him as a #10, but Torreira has never been a player who sits.

The only thing that changed is that he went from having one outstanding attribute - his Kanté-esque ability to run for two people all game - to having no outstanding abilities whatsoever. Tank was empty after four months in England and never got refilled, and he has looked like the bang average footballer he is ever since then. I know people who mentioned PEDs were probably joking, but it really makes you wonder.

To me it seems Torreira is a player far too dependent on a formation. He does well in a 4-1-3-2 like Urguguay play as he's not alone in midfield, but also not too deep where physicality matters more.

But in a 4-2-3-1 he's exposed, and in 4-3-3 he can work but doesn't really excel in a B2b role.

Would rather keep Douzi than him.

Klaus wrote:

That's exactly how Torreira played in Italy. Pressing high, driving the ball up the field. Was always a Ramsey substitute rather than a holding midfielder. Emery's shittiness as a manager reached new levels for sure when he decided to play him as a #10, but Torreira has never been a player who sits.

The only thing that changed is that he went from having one outstanding attribute - his Kanté-esque ability to run for two people all game - to having no outstanding abilities whatsoever. Tank was empty after four months in England and never got refilled.

Yep. I 'm one of his biggest defenders/fans on here but it's amazing to see how off the pace he looks. Second to every ball and never really in any danger of actually winning tackles and the press is utterly pointless. He has had a couple of short spells of positive form in between but it never lasts. Maybe it's just taking him an extra long time to adapt, but more likely is that he's just not build for the PL I don't think. I'd be ok with keeping him, but if a decent offer comes in then I'd defo sell.

Common malady. Whether it’s Torreira, Pépé, Sanchez, Perez, etc., so many players are scouted and then not deployed optimally once they get here, so they look a bit lost. We could write a whole addendum to Wenger’s book. Hopefully, Edu and Arteta are working on this

Captain wrote:

May be a bit premature, but what is the general sentiment on Arteta?

Wanted to get this question in before the FA cup, come what may.

Personally, I'm underwhelmed so far, but appreciate that there are mitigating circumstances. The lack of attacking verve is extremely worrying.

About par for me, like you say the poor attacking play is worrying but defensively we look much more structured and improved.

Our goalie is still man of the match most weeks too...

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

I think Torreira had the right profile, but it doesn't always work out.

Yeah I kind of agree with that. The reality is that with the market where it is now pretty much anyone for that mid-20m price tag is going to be a gamble. We should be able to sell him without making a loss so really its not bad business, just a player who didn't work out.

Captain wrote:

Our goalie is still man of the match most weeks too...

I’d say Ceballos is man of the match a lot of weeks. Martinez is just noticeable because he’s giving us the highlight reel. But our Spaniard is putting in a less glamorous shift in the middle of the park.

I do think the team looks a lot more organised and disciplined, but the issues with the squad sort of limit the impact except maybe in big games. A good example is how atrocious we are at set pieces since Arteta has taken over, it renders everything else pointless.

There's also a clear discrepancy between our first half and second half performances. Maybe we're not fit enough, or maybe playing every 3 days is taking it's toll, but once the energy is gone we struggle a little to adapt.

Captain wrote:

Our goalie is still man of the match most weeks too...

What do you expect with these players, from a defensive standpoint and an attacking standpoint?

Here's the league table since he took over I'd say it's decent considering how bad we were beforehand.

  1. Liverpool – 47 points
    1. Man City – 43 points
  2. Man Utd – 41 points
  3. Chelsea – 34 points (GD +7)
  4. Southampton – 34 points (GD +7)
  5. Arsenal – 33 points (GD +11)
  6. Tottenham – 33 points (GD +8)

I would expect that if the focus is 'getting the basics right', then our goalkeeper isn't pulling off heroics week-in, week-out.

Captain wrote:

I would expect that if the focus is 'getting the basics right', then our goalkeeper isn't pulling off heroics week-in, week-out.

An over the hill luiz is or best defender, and the midfield struggles to hold onto the ball. Is this current squad likely to produce a team where the keeper has an easy life?

We have only one ball player in midfield in Ceballos who struggles to adapt to the league under Emery. And our only on-the ball players in the forward line are Ozil, Pépé, and Nelson. One of them has retired and another is a rookie. It’s not surprising that we are struggling to make offense happen. If Nelson could find confidence and we could get him, Ceballos and Pépé going together, maybe something could happen, but we are really talking about hitting 3 swishes in a row from the 3 point line type of luck here.

speedy wrote:
Captain wrote:

I would expect that if the focus is 'getting the basics right', then our goalkeeper isn't pulling off heroics week-in, week-out.

An over the hill luiz is or best defender, and the midfield struggles to hold onto the ball. Is this current squad likely to produce a team where the keeper has an easy life?

Absolutely possible if the reason we can't attack is because we're only working on 'the basics', which was presumably shorthand for defence. I did not propose that idea, by the by.

Anzac, I guess for me by lucky I mean we are setting up like an interior team does which is to concede total control of the game and rely on being very efficient with whatever chances you get. More often then not you get beaten that way.

I personally don't think the Liverpool game is a great example became they took the lead and then may two very unusual errors to gift goals. I don't think that happens to often.

I think we were better against city but I also think they weren't city in the best attacking form so another day they might be more effective. I don't think that those matches showed a way forward on that front yet.

awooga83 wrote:

Anzac, I guess for me by lucky I mean we are setting up like an interior team does which is to concede total control of the game and rely on being very efficient with whatever chances you get. More often then not you get beaten that way.

I personally don't think the Liverpool game is a great example became they took the lead and then may two very unusual errors to gift goals. I don't think that happens to often.

I think we were better against city but I also think they weren't city in the best attacking form so another day they might be more effective. I don't think that those matches showed a way forward on that front yet.

Agreed they do not show the intended way forward - I very much doubt we have actually seen a full picture of what Arteta's end game is about.  I just think he has shown he has tactical ability in spite of the limited resources he has available, and it wasn't parking the bus.
That said IMO MU played with a deep block on the counter for much of the season until they signed Fernandes.