awooga83 wrote:

I think the problems Arteta is encountering are the same as those faced by Emery the only difference is the time available to address them. We've long known this is a very limited squad with very poor creativity and not enough goals in our forwards.

We also have a pretty poor defence and for me we haven't seen much of a departure in our style of play and nature of our performances. But the next season is the real test of whether we have any strategy to move forwards or more of the same and if Arteta can do that.

Emery still had Mkhi, Iwobi & Rambo which would solve many of the current issues and give Arteta the option to play 433 if that is his preferred system.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12034597/mikel-arteta-exclusive-arsenal-ready-to-strengthen-squad-and-solve-creativity-problem

Arteta has a massive job ahead of him. There is only one player in our starting eleven now who is a top four footballer and that's Auba. Fortunately for us we also have two very good goalkeepers. The rest of the team however is the definition of mid-table mediocrity. He is also going to have very little money to spend and an impatient fan base to deal with, I really don't envy the task ahead of Arteta.

I'd be surprised if he is still at the club by the end of next season and not because he is a poor manager but because he is doomed for failure in terms of what our expectations are of Arsenal football club. We are not getting top 4 next season or even competing for it and I don't think us fans will put up with that. The easiest scapegoat and most accessible outlet for our frustrations will be Arteta.

Tambourine Man wrote:

Arteta has a massive job ahead of him. There is only one player in our starting eleven now who is a top four footballer and that's Auba. Fortunately for us we also have two very good goalkeepers. The rest of the team however is the definition of mid-table mediocrity. He is also going to have very little money to spend and an impatient fan base to deal with, I really don't envy the task ahead of Arteta.

I'd be surprised if he is still at the club by the end of next season and not because he is a poor manager but because he is doomed for failure in terms of what our expectations are of Arsenal football club. We are not getting top 4 next season or even competing for it and I don't think us fans will put up with that. The easiest scapegoat and most accessible outlet for our frustrations will be Arteta.

This is why we need a dose of mid table realism. Arteta is not bad at his job, but he needs a competitive squad and we're a few years away from it at the rate we spend and the types of signings we manage. Looking at the bigger picture, far more responsibility should fall on the business side and Sanllehi than on Arteta at the moment.

Burnwinter wrote:

Tambourine Man wrote:

Arteta has a massive job ahead of him. There is only one player in our starting eleven now who is a top four footballer and that's Auba. Fortunately for us we also have two very good goalkeepers. The rest of the team however is the definition of mid-table mediocrity. He is also going to have very little money to spend and an impatient fan base to deal with, I really don't envy the task ahead of Arteta.

I'd be surprised if he is still at the club by the end of next season and not because he is a poor manager but because he is doomed for failure in terms of what our expectations are of Arsenal football club. We are not getting top 4 next season or even competing for it and I don't think us fans will put up with that. The easiest scapegoat and most accessible outlet for our frustrations will be Arteta.

This is why we need a dose of mid table realism. Arteta is not bad at his job, but he needs a competitive squad and we're a few years away from it at the rate we spend and the types of signings we manage. Looking at the bigger picture, far more responsibility should fall on the business side and Sanllehi than on Arteta at the moment.

Particularly as Arteta is supposedly only a Head Coach and does not have the same authority or power as a Manager.

Claudius wrote:

You need to shift personnel.

I fully believe this and have said as much, but these are strange times. How are we going to shift all we need to shift and buy all we need to buy on a deeply restricted budget due to sporting failures, as well as the belt-tightening that comes with a global pandemic?

I think we're in for a few more years of hurt, and we can't sell off the whole squad without a market for replacements that actually move us forward. We need to build value, not drain it. Selling is only useful if it comes with buying, and good buying at that. We can't chuck around the kind of money Chelsea is, so we need to take more risks. Those risks have to be calculated and precise, something very difficult, if not impossible, to accomplish in these times.

Coombs wrote:

Claudius wrote:

You need to shift personnel.

I fully believe this and have said as much, but these are strange times. How are we going to shift all we need to shift and buy all we need to buy on a deeply restricted budget due to sporting failures, as well as the belt-tightening that comes with a global pandemic?

I think we're in for a few more years of hurt, and we can't sell off the whole squad without a market for replacements that actually move us forward. We need to build value, not drain it. Selling is only useful if it comes with buying, and good buying at that. We can't chuck around the kind of money Chelsea is, so we need to take more risks. Those risks have to be calculated and precise, something very difficult, if not impossible, to accomplish in these times.

We're frakked if that's the case.  We can't chuck around the sort of money the promoted clubs are going to be able to & in this market the value will be immense.

Why are promoted clubs suddenly a threat?

Think he's worried about the next Wolves.

Not far fetched if Leeds spend decent money under Bielsa and we sign no one

Claudius wrote:

Why are promoted clubs suddenly a threat?

The FA has not replaced it's version of FFP that ended a year ago, & there is no restriction to stop them spending the 80m they will receive from their equal share of PL TV revenues.  This means they will have 3 seasons from when they qualify for UEFA before they need to meet FFP.  

They are also a greater threat this coming season because of post-COVID finances and the value they can get in the market by having such revenue available. 

I suppose it's mainly LUFC I'm concerned with as Bielsa will be a big draw for them, and they've also shown their intent in the market with having already made an approach for Cavani and are now after Jonathan David from Genk(?), as well as showing interest in Martinez.  They are aslo after a CB as they have had an offer for Ben White rejected.

I think there is no doubt we are in a real mess as a club and it doesn't feel like we've really laid any decent foundations as yet in terms of going forwards and that will likely take some time to address. But I look at the teams who've outdone us this year, like Chelsea, United and spurs, and I don't see teams light years away from us so I don't think closing them down is that difficult in theory.

On Arteta, the jury is still very much out for me. I'm not sure I've seen signs this season to know if he's going to be the person to try to take us forward. The thing I'd say lots of the talk about him was he was well respected maybe the next big coach. At the time there seemed to be a we need to go for him because we can't spend big and being the now established managers.

Now we seem to be getting more of a well of course he needs big backing but that was originally one of the supposed reasons we weren't bringing in established managers and Emery had the same issue that is a very poor squad but that wasn't enough to excuse his underachievement.

Of course Arteta has next season but it's a very important one for him where he gets a full crack and he needs to demonstrate tangible progress in my eyes. That should include targeting champions League return which requires us not dropping so many silly points as a result of poor defensive play and presumably coaching.

Tambourine Man wrote:

Arteta has a massive job ahead of him. There is only one player in our starting eleven now who is a top four footballer and that's Auba. Fortunately for us we also have two very good goalkeepers. The rest of the team however is the definition of mid-table mediocrity. He is also going to have very little money to spend and an impatient fan base to deal with, I really don't envy the task ahead of Arteta.

I'd be surprised if he is still at the club by the end of next season and not because he is a poor manager but because he is doomed for failure in terms of what our expectations are of Arsenal football club. We are not getting top 4 next season or even competing for it and I don't think us fans will put up with that. The easiest scapegoat and most accessible outlet for our frustrations will be Arteta.

I agree with you.

I think that we need to give Arteta some time. It will take a couple of seasons, for him to possibly put his stamp on the team. He will need to replace almost every position on the team with the exception of goalkeeper.

Personally what I would want to see is Arteta and the team being proactive and not being shy in ripping the team apart and getting rid of deadwood. 

Claudius wrote:

8 goals is a lot. If we can get 5 or 6 goals from midfield in the league, good.
The creativity issue you point to is important. Would help to have 2 10s. Another issue we have is that Pépé is our one creative in attack. Aubameyang is really primarily a finisher and Laca neither creates nor scores in sufficiently high amounts. When Pépé isn’t in and Ceballos is deep, creativity stops.

I was looking at our attacking patterns against Villa and is horrified.

Basically no one could take on their opponents successfully in dangerous areas and we only resorted to pointless crossing.

I reckon it's why we need guys like Eddie and Nelson on the pitch.

Above all it's why we need to skip that extra defender and put on an attacking midfielder though. Having your only striker drop into midfield to pick up the ball is bottom of the table stuff, and it leaves you with a horseshoe-sized attack where no one's ever in the box.

Clrnc wrote:

Claudius wrote:

8 goals is a lot. If we can get 5 or 6 goals from midfield in the league, good.
The creativity issue you point to is important. Would help to have 2 10s. Another issue we have is that Pépé is our one creative in attack. Aubameyang is really primarily a finisher and Laca neither creates nor scores in sufficiently high amounts. When Pépé isn’t in and Ceballos is deep, creativity stops.

I was looking at our attacking patterns against Villa and is horrified.

Basically no one could take on their opponents successfully in dangerous areas and we only resorted to pointless crossing.

Clrnc, all our attacks have the same U shape. Contrast with teams like City and Atalanta that confidently build through the middle and then spread to the wings. Their centre is bustling. Our transfer business needs to be mainly midfield. Aubameyang was responsible for 39% of our league goals on a team with no creativity. Imagine the team flowing with more movement, runs from midfield, better distribution to all our forwards. We’d have made top 4 with one excellent AM on board.

Klaus wrote:

I reckon it's why we need guys like Eddie and Nelson on the pitch.

Above all it's why we need to skip that extra defender and put on an attacking midfielder though. Having your only striker drop into midfield to pick up the ball is bottom of the table stuff, and it leaves you with a horseshoe-sized attack where no one's ever in the box.

The tactic itself is one thing but it becomes a big problem when you place so much emphasis on Laca who has been so hit and miss, mostly miss, this season.

If we were going to play this formation I'd like to have seen us go with something like this:

Nelson - Auba - Pepe

Saka - Xhaka - Ceballos - AMN

You could then ask Nelson and Pepe to fill that void in front of the centre mids while Saka and AMN provide the width. It's all a little too one dimensional at the moment.

I just want the pretty triangles back.

Klaus wrote:

I reckon it's why we need guys like Eddie and Nelson on the pitch.

Above all it's why we need to skip that extra defender and put on an attacking midfielder though. Having your only striker drop into midfield to pick up the ball is bottom of the table stuff, and it leaves you with a horseshoe-sized attack where no one's ever in the box.

On Buendía, I’m seeing that he has one of the highest percentages of forward passes. And still achieves a good pass completion rate. That sort of ambition could be useful on a viscous team such as ours.

Signing this guy might require some rejigging. If we go 433, potentially you play him at 8, Tierney atleft back, Saka at left wing, and Aubameyang at 9. It would mean no target man, unless Saka sits.

Claudius wrote:

Clrnc wrote:

I was looking at our attacking patterns against Villa and is horrified.

Basically no one could take on their opponents successfully in dangerous areas and we only resorted to pointless crossing.

Clrnc, all our attacks have the same U shape. Contrast with teams like City and Atalanta that confidently build through the middle and then spread to the wings. Their centre is bustling. Our transfer business needs to be mainly midfield. Aubameyang was responsible for 39% of our league goals on a team with no creativity. Imagine the team flowing with more movement, runs from midfield, better distribution to all our forwards. We’d have made top 4 with one excellent AM on board.

It's been an issue all season but has become much more noticeable since we went to the 343/3421.