Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.: Page 159 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.

Coombs

Ozil clearly doesn't want to play, or he'd have struck a deal and be gone already. He couldn't care less about football.

Just need this whole saga to be over. Another will probably start, but at least if Arteta and Edu are bringing them in together they're jointly responsible.

Claudius

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Claudius wrote:
He wants to earn all of his bonuses.
Which he won’t earn because he won’t play. But we can’t sit across the table from him and say we are going to give him a contract payout without his bonuses, because that would imply we were planning on defaulting on his contract, thus acting in bad faith.
So we should’ve offered to pay out his contract with a fair amount of his bonuses, ie equivalent to what he would’ve earned in a regular season based on his prior performances. And sent him off.

To have just the Ozil situation would be unfortunate. But to have had Ramsey, and now Saliba and all these other expiring contracts exhibits a club that is wholly incompetent at player contract management

Doesn't that mean we're only doing the logical thing? If it costs more to pay him out than let him sit then let him sit. It should cost less if anything since he'd get a new salary somewhere else so he'd still get more than he does now.

His new salary is not our concern.
He should leave that out of any negotiation with us. Why would he allow us to cheat him on the basis that our failure to honor our contract enables him to earn money elsewhere?

QuincyAbeyie

Are you literally saying he should not be rational or am I misunderstanding something here? For simplicity let's say that his salary with bonuses is 100, his salary without bonuses is 80 and the salary he'll get elsewhere is 50.

His options in your scenario are these:
1a. He can stay here and sit on the bench, he'll get 80.
2a. We buy him out and don't pay the bonuses, he'll get 80 + 50 from his new club = 130.
3a. We buy him out and pay the bonuses, he'll get 100+50 from the new club = 150.

Our options are these:
1b. He can stay here and sit on the bench, we pay 80.
2b. We can buy him out and don't pay the bonuses, we pay 80.
3b. We can buy him out and pay the bonuses, we pay 100.

Do you see the logical outcome in this negotiation as him getting 100 from Arsenal or are you talking about a different situation than I am?

Claudius

The way to think about it is this.
Our best alternative to a deal with Ozil is

Ozil stays at Arsenal, doesn’t play and gets the bare minimum: $80

Ozil’s best alternative to a deal is

to stay at Arsenal, get the bare minimum $80 and walk away with a new contract in June.

So Ozil starts in a position where what he wants is at least as much as much Arsenal can offer. He knows he has a great fall back position and Arsenal has a shit fall back position. He basically can set a high price - a reasonable ask is the expected value of his contract were he to play without being dicked around - with the knowledge that his worst outcome is a good outcome.

QuincyAbeyie

A deal for leaving without getting the bonuses is better for him than sitting here. It's literally the same as if he stays only with the addition of getting a salary from his new club. Özil has something to gain from doing that while Arsenal will have to pay anyway so they have no incentive to pay him even more to have him gone instead of sitting at home playing Fortnite.

Claudius

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
A deal for leaving without getting the bonuses is better for him than sitting here. It's literally the same as if he stays only with the addition of getting a salary from his new club. Özil has something to gain from doing that while Arsenal will have to pay anyway so they have no incentive to pay him even more to have him gone instead of sitting at home playing Fortnite.

As I pointed out, his best alternative is really good. It’s to make at least, say, £250k/week to do nothing. His range of outcomes is what puts him in a powerful position. His stretch outcome is to get his full salary from Arsenal, and then get a full salary elsewhere. He has an incredible position

Rohit

If Ozil's presence vitiates the training ground atmosphere, he should be just terminated. We could do without toxicity.

QuincyAbeyie

Claudius wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
A deal for leaving without getting the bonuses is better for him than sitting here. It's literally the same as if he stays only with the addition of getting a salary from his new club. Özil has something to gain from doing that while Arsenal will have to pay anyway so they have no incentive to pay him even more to have him gone instead of sitting at home playing Fortnite.

As I pointed out, his best alternative is really good. It’s to make at least, say, £250k/week to do nothing. His range of outcomes is what puts him in a powerful position. His stretch outcome is to get his full salary from Arsenal, and then get a full salary elsewhere. He has an incredible position

All I want is for you to answer why that is better than us buying him out of the contract, which would mean paying him his salary in advance and then he'll get a full salary elsewhere now instead of in 6 months. I laid the scenarios out, so can you please explain why getting 250k/week from Arsenal is better than getting 250k/week from Arsenal + a paycheck from another club at the same time?

He's in an indredible position because he's getting more money than he deserves anyway, but he's not in any way in a good position to negotiate any bonus because Arsenal don't have an incentive to give that to him.

naz

I'm not sure how we went from a comment about someone leaking info to Ozil. You'd think he'd be told to stay home or fined for doing something like this. I don't think it's as simple as Ozil being toxic openly. He'd be gone if that were the case and knowing Arteta's "culture" drive or whatever he's doing.

Sicario

Just over a week ago this guy was in hell. Let’s not get carried away but it’s quite remarkable to have been on the brink to 3 wins on a trot and things looking more positive.

The awful period we experienced could have been the best thing to happen to us long-term, the team spirit and unity that can be created from turning around a very bad situation can not be underestimated.

Claudius

I’m rooting for Arteta. It’s in our best interests he does well. It’s painful to see the man struggling and the team, by extension, struggling. The bits of really good football we saw versus Chelsea and West Brom in the 4231 with the young bucks playing a key role are encouraging. And that’s without Gabriel and Partey. Once we reintegrate those guys, we have some decent building blocks.

It’s helpful that these last few weeks have started to put the team into focus. We can see who is / isn’t important

Don Pacifico

It's been without Auba too... 😉

deardevil

#SupportArteta

Gazza M

my position was we had to beat West brom and Brighton or his position would be untenable. job done, let's see what happens now. the team is moving the ball much better thanks to the yutes. now don't undercut this by forcing willian or pepe back into the side. they have to earn their places back the old fashioned way

RC8

I don't think Arteta is without blame for what transpired with the team in Fall. He really should have been summoning the Europa League team in the league waaay sooner. That he was basically forced to drop Willian is a travesty.

That said, I think Mikel has demonstrated more so than any other manager we've had over the past 4 years that he can use limited resources to produce excellent performances against challenging sides.

Much like Ole looks competent now he has a functional squad at his disposal, I suspect Arteta can craft a very good (and probably better) team if the ingredients are there.

Coombs

Play Partey and we'll have the recovery pace to field two players like ESR. It'll be awesome.

naz

I still don't get why he plays willian over pepe. I just don't get it

Claudius

naz wrote:
I still don't get why he plays willian over pepe. I just don't get it

Pepe loses the ball. Arteta likes possession

Coombs

naz wrote:
I still don't get why he plays willian over pepe. I just don't get it

It must be whatever the fatal flaw is on his character sheet.

Gazza M

naz wrote:
I still don't get why he plays willian over pepe. I just don't get it

willian is probably more useless, but pepe is just so chaotic. he doesn't know what he's going to do next, let alone his team-mates. doesn't combine anywhere near as well as saka or martinelli

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