Having a left wing willing to run was as much of a bonus as leaving Willian out. Actually made space for Tierney on the overlap.

Yup. Like what you say about the Europa League squad.
But I think some nuance is important. It’s not just all the younger and fringe players we needed to give a chance. It’s the high potential players. We’ve give various other players a chance and they’ve failed to spark. The focus must always be on quality. All players young and old must be clear about the bar.

Everything about how we assess the club must be on consistency for me. Replicated and week in week out. The result against Chelsea is a good one but must be followed up and that goes for the players. Repeated performance is the problem for much of this squad.

Send this lot back out again in 3 days. I think after that, we have one more game, then a one week break. Did anybody do badly enough to deserve a demotion? Aubameyang, Pépé etc must be impact subs in next game.
Understand margins were fine today. The best chances we probably had were ones we failed we to score. The Elneny chance off the crossbar and the Martinelli shot from Tierney pass. Those are all better than chances leading to goals.

RC8 wrote:

The main difference today was that we had players out there working hard, willing to run with the ball, looking to create chances, and shoot as required.

Xhaka had a great game, too, which shows that when we have a performing midfield and direct threats on the flanks Arteta's system works fine.

2 points to consider in relation to this going forward.

1 - The first is fairly simple as per the opening line - better movement = better passing options, although Xhaka's % was actually down and IMO partly to do with the 2nd point as follows;

2 - Xhaka didn't play as the deepest CM or as in a twin pivot alongside a CM partner, for the first time this season (at least) he was the highest positioned CM.  He was not only higher up the pitch as the more advanced CM, his average position was basically on the center spot, and more in touch with the CAM and WFs than either Elneny or the CBs.  He was essentially on the same lateral line as the WBs/FBs in that supporting function.

IMO this 2nd point is equally significant for player and team, least of all for roles and shape.  

Yes Xhaka had a good game, but is his contribution in the supporting role good enough ahead of the likes of Ceballos in a 2CM midfield, let alone to force Partey to be used as the deeper CM?  
Alternatively does it mean an in-house solution to our midfield creativity if we switch to an inverted midfield3 with Xhaka in a creative supportive role alongside Partey ahead of a more defensive player like Elneny, and using ESR to cover Xhaka, Willock for Partey and AMN for Elneny as the NextGen? 

Was his role today similar to where he plays for the Swiss?

Coombs wrote:

Having a left wing willing to run was as much of a bonus as leaving Willian out. Actually made space for Tierney on the overlap.

I found it odd how much Arteta was hyping up Martinelli before his comeback, he's usually very quick to try and ease expectations. Then he actually fast tracked his integration back into match days. He was obviously desperate to have that running and enthusiasm back in the team. 

I don't even think Martinelli had a particularly good game on the ball, but his running, pace and composure meant he was a great outlet. He also plays the whole game in 5th gear.

GooneriC wrote:

Was his role today similar to where he plays for the Swiss?

I suspect so.

From what I can see he usually plays as part of a twin pivot in a 2CM midfield but his partner is usually a DM more like Elneny, than being either a CMA like Ceballos or a B2B type like Partey.  Switzerland also seem to use more a 442/532 shape rather than 343/4231.  In the 3 man midfield he plays as the deepest CM as the outside 2 push up.

From what I can see from a quick look it appears this is only the 2nd time Xhaka has played alongside Elneny this season (and the first time in a 4231), with the other time being as twin pivots in the 343 in the 3-1 loss A v LFC.

Again the question is whilst it was an improved performance individually, is it good enough to warrant a change of shape or selections?
EDIT - for arguements sake I think I'd still prefer the options of Brandt alongside Partey with Elneny as DM.

Elneny should not be near the starting line up with players fit.

Rohit wrote:

Elneny should not be near the starting line up with players fit.

As it stands he's the only 'true' defensive mid we have. 

goon wrote:

Coombs wrote:

Having a left wing willing to run was as much of a bonus as leaving Willian out. Actually made space for Tierney on the overlap.

I found it odd how much Arteta was hyping up Martinelli before his comeback, he's usually very quick to try and ease expectations. Then he actually fast tracked his integration back into match days. He was obviously desperate to have that running and enthusiasm back in the team. 

I don't even think Martinelli had a particularly good game on the ball, but his running, pace and composure meant he was a great outlet. He also plays the whole game in 5th gear.

Yea he's clearly rusty on the ball but he has such devastating athleticism. His presence alone makes holes in the opposition defense.

RC8 wrote:

The main difference today was that we had players out there working hard, willing to run with the ball, looking to create chances, and shoot as required.

Xhaka had a great game, too, which shows that when we have a performing midfield and direct threats on the flanks Arteta's system works fine.

I think Arteta's system is fine. It's even good. The fluidity of the 3-4-3 / 4-2-3-1 is great. 

But picking Willian every game spoils it. Xhaka at least I can understand from everyone else bar Partey being underwhelming, though I still feel AMN could be given more chances.

Coombs wrote:

goon wrote:

I found it odd how much Arteta was hyping up Martinelli before his comeback, he's usually very quick to try and ease expectations. Then he actually fast tracked his integration back into match days. He was obviously desperate to have that running and enthusiasm back in the team. 

I don't even think Martinelli had a particularly good game on the ball, but his running, pace and composure meant he was a great outlet. He also plays the whole game in 5th gear.

Yea he's clearly rusty on the ball but he has such devastating athleticism. His presence alone makes holes in the opposition defense.

It's a damning indictment of Pepe that the wonder kids are so much more dangerous than him. The attack went down a notch when he replaced Martinelli. Think it's time to sell him in the summer before he turns into another Mustafi, Xhaka. We sent Gervinho packing after his second season, Pepe should follow suit.

It'll probably be better to keep Pepe if he doesn't have any value on the market. He can still be a good player for us; it's benching him for a useless lump like Willian that is the issue, not benching him for a clearly superior player like Saka.

Yes I think we need to cut our losses re Pepe. We just have no fluidity or workable patterns when he plays.

Whats disappointing was his seeming lack of effort when he came on. Two things immediately came to mind :
He had loads of space to run into behind Chelsea's line and was casually jogging with Tierney frantically pointing to the area he should be busting his gut running into.
The second was Pepe again not pressing and Laca who had been on since the start running past him to pressure Mandy for that big chance.
Not good . I don't know how much more time we can give him but he needs to have a great second half of the season or we should get rid.

Klaus wrote:

It'll probably be better to keep Pepe if he doesn't have any value on the market. He can still be a good player for us; it's benching him for a useless lump like Willian that is the issue, not benching him for a clearly superior player like Saka.

we need to give him his chance to play. 
if he cannot play AND we are backing Arteta, we need to cut him loose and bring in other players. if we are bringing in another manager, give that manager a chance to resuscitate him. this team needs to end this useless asset utilisation practice. it's daft to just have all these highly paid players sitting on the bench or at home playing Among Us all day long.  

He's had more than enough chances. Sure, it's a bonus if a manager can improve a player but for the most part, it's the managers' responsibility to give players a chance and the players responsibility to take those chances. I read an excerpt yesterday regarding LVG and how he gave Di Maria countless opportunities in numerous positions hoping he would perform but the Argentine just never did. At what point is the player held accountable? Pepe like Angel before him has to take responsibility for his failures, and the fact is that three different managers haven't trusted him, and he's shown exactly why whenever he's played. People were pining for him to start ahead of Willian this season and as soon as he got a chance, he went and got sent off. Then after returning from his suspension, he ended up performing even worse than Willian.

He's 25 years old and plays like a raw 19 year old. Except, we have two 19 year olds who are significantly more mature than him.

Yes, players develop at different rates, like coffee is black. But how many players in their mid-twenties are dodgy and inconsistent but then go on to turn it around? Most players who are dodgy and inconsistent go on to become even dodgier with time. He's half a season short of two full seasons and if he hasn't blossomed already, he's unlikely to go ahead and break out of his cocoon.

There's a sunken cost fallacy at play and his value will only erode further if we keep him.

Martinelli took less than 5 minutes to show why he's so much better than him and Saka has been outperforming him this entire season.

For the price we paid for him, there's no point keeping him even if he proves to be a good substitute. We've anchored 72 million next to his name and he's not shat the bed badly enough that we couldn't recoup just short of half of that.

Claudius wrote:

Klaus wrote:

It'll probably be better to keep Pepe if he doesn't have any value on the market. He can still be a good player for us; it's benching him for a useless lump like Willian that is the issue, not benching him for a clearly superior player like Saka.

we need to give him his chance to play. 
if he cannot play AND we are backing Arteta, we need to cut him lose and bring in other players

You're the one saying we need depth, right? I think Pepe is good depth; certainly compared to Willian. I'd have Saka and Martinelli ahead of him on either flank personally, but they can't and shouldn't play all the time. Competition for squad places is a fundamentally good thing.

Saka, Marty, Pepe and Nelson is a much better set of wide players than Auba and Willian. We need to undo a lot of things that Arteta and Edu have done when it comes to overloading the squad with the old and useless (and this is one of the main reasons why they both still need to leave as soon as possible, before they can do more damage), but I wouldn't count Pepe among those even though he frustrates the hell out of me sometimes.