I think you really have to question the entire structure at this club when you consider they offered Mustafi a new contract.
I said Mustafi at 35m is one of our worst signings ever when he signed and every more game he has played only went on to prove that. That alone leads to alot of question of our coach and his colleague
No more Spanish managers please.
GooneriC wrote:No more Spanish managers please.
Facht.
For me what is happening now is not such a surprise in terms of their was such a risk in appointing an inexperienced manager who you have no actual data to judge what they are about. It's a reckless decision because the chance of someone of that profile getting the needed performance first time is so rare it doesn't really happen. So putting your faith in essentially winning that lottery is a pretty mad decision for any club but certainly one with the circumstances we have found ourselves in it is a really poor decision.
There are issues all over the club so the last thing you want is another destabilising variable in a manager of unknown quality.
The arguments for him have focused on people speaking well of his time as a coach at city and that he speaks well in interviews none of which is relevant to actually being a manager. In the only evidence we have of his year in charge he's clearly a long way from the required level right now.
That doesn't mean hours career is over just like other managers he may need a number of Jobs to refine his style it rarely comes right first time.
awooga83 wrote:For me what is happening now is not such a surprise in terms of their was such a risk in appointing an inexperienced manager who you have no actual data to judge what they are about. It's a reckless decision because the chance of someone of that profile getting the needed performance first time is so rare it doesn't really happen. So putting your faith in essentially winning that lottery is a pretty mad decision for any club but certainly one with the circumstances we have found ourselves in it is a really poor decision.
There are issues all over the club so the last thing you want is another destabilising variable in a manager of unknown quality.
The arguments for him have focused on people speaking well of his time as a coach at city and that he speaks well in interviews none of which is relevant to actually being a manager. In the only evidence we have of his year in charge he's clearly a long way from the required level right now.
That doesn't mean hours career is over just like other managers he may need a number of Jobs to refine his style it rarely comes right first time.
Nobody could have expected he would be as bad as a coach as he is though. I am not going to blame anyone who made the decision to hire him, it just didn't work out, fair enough. However, enough is enough, Arteta is just awful at a job and needs to be replaced.
swider wrote:awooga83 wrote:For me what is happening now is not such a surprise in terms of their was such a risk in appointing an inexperienced manager who you have no actual data to judge what they are about. It's a reckless decision because the chance of someone of that profile getting the needed performance first time is so rare it doesn't really happen. So putting your faith in essentially winning that lottery is a pretty mad decision for any club but certainly one with the circumstances we have found ourselves in it is a really poor decision.
There are issues all over the club so the last thing you want is another destabilising variable in a manager of unknown quality.
The arguments for him have focused on people speaking well of his time as a coach at city and that he speaks well in interviews none of which is relevant to actually being a manager. In the only evidence we have of his year in charge he's clearly a long way from the required level right now.
That doesn't mean hours career is over just like other managers he may need a number of Jobs to refine his style it rarely comes right first time.
Nobody could have expected he would be as bad as a coach as he is though. I am not going to blame anyone who made the decision to hire him, it just didn't work out, fair enough. However, enough is enough, Arteta is just awful at a job and needs to be replaced.
No. That was a high but totally senseless gamble. There were very good candidates available. We could have hired an experienced guy like Allegri or an up-and-coming coach like Hasenhüttl with at least some first degree experience.
Arsenal is a top club of England. Taking a newbie coach was astonishing and we are just starting to notice the consequences.
We saw how Arteta pushed Partey back onto the field against Spurs when he was injured. Today, Martinelli was in tears after having been out for 7 months. What do we do, send him back out for the second half. He should’ve gone straight out for scans at half time and Balogun should’ve come in. How important is this result versus securing this boys health over the next few months / years?
This is what I was talking about before the game when I said while we might view this cup game as relatively meaningless, it is everything for Arteta. And a manager optimizing for the present will potentially make sun-optimal long term decisions. Like why not play ESR a little while longer, or bring Balogun on as soon as Martinelli goes down, etc. incredibly irresponsible short termism that he unfortunately cannot be reprimanded for by the DoF.
AAStyle- wrote:swider wrote:Nobody could have expected he would be as bad as a coach as he is though. I am not going to blame anyone who made the decision to hire him, it just didn't work out, fair enough. However, enough is enough, Arteta is just awful at a job and needs to be replaced.
No. That was a high but totally senseless gamble. There were very good candidates available. We could have hired an experienced guy like Allegri or an up-and-coming coach like Hasenhüttl with at least some first degree experience.
Arsenal is a top club of England. Taking a newbie coach was astonishing and we are just starting to notice the consequences.
He wasn't my first choice either, and in hindsight the decision was extremely stupid. However, everyone believed that he was a great coach and at least good coach was exactly what we needed at the time and still do as the players look clueless on the pitch.
So while I am (kind of) willing to forgive them for taking a chance on Arteta, at the same time I cannot believe the club didn't make the decision of sacking him yet. He is underperforming by any standard and the longer it continues the worst the outcome is for us as a club.
I also understand the frustration of those who were always against appointing him as a coach/manager. I have to admit I wasn't against it, but it is clear to see the decision was bad.
Claudius wrote:We saw how Arteta pushed Partey back onto the field against Spurs when he was injured. Today, Martinelli was in tears after having been out for 7 months. What do we do, send him back out for the second half. He should’ve gone straight out for scans at half time and Balogun should’ve come in. How important is this result versus securing this boys health over the next few months / years?
This is what I was talking about before the game when I said while we might view this cup game as relatively meaningless, it is everything for Arteta. And a manager optimizing for the present will potentially make sun-optimal long term decisions. Like why not play ESR a little while longer, or bring Balogun on as soon as Martinelli goes down, etc. incredibly irresponsible short termism that he unfortunately cannot be reprimanded for by the DoF.
We also saw him benching Martinez in cups last year to give a chance today to the goalkeeper who is clearly out of his depth at any professional level. There were also other red flags along the way, from benching Martinelli after becoming a manager to playing Willian basically week in, week out are two that immediately come to mind.
This bloke is more out of his depth than Rúnarsson is.
The mistake IMO is structural as opposed to the individuals involved.
By this I mean not replacing Sanllehi with another experienced DoF, and then promoting a rookie Head Coach to Manager alongside a similarly inexperienced TD = the blind leading the blind with too much to do in a disfunctional situation.
Kel Varnsen wrote:Arteta is a joke. There is no clear structure in the team, not clear patterns on or off the ball, and half the players don't give a shit. Are we pressing high or low, and according to which "triggers"? Individual players are sprinting towards the ball, while others are dropping off. It's chaos. He has lost it and it's just a matter of time before he's fired.
Exactly. I knew latter era Wengers strengths and weaknesses but at least he had strengths. What is Arteta good at?
Over committing men to defense.
Was lovely having five of them back there, plus El Neny and Ceballos - and at times Laca - ten yards in front.
If you want a guy with PL experience, you do everything you can to prize Rodgers away from Leicester. Can’t think of a better choice with a similar profile. Then you get Rangnick to oversee the process. That’s the dream situation. Get the two novices out of here.
Qwiss! wrote:Kel Varnsen wrote:Arteta is a joke. There is no clear structure in the team, not clear patterns on or off the ball, and half the players don't give a shit. Are we pressing high or low, and according to which "triggers"? Individual players are sprinting towards the ball, while others are dropping off. It's chaos. He has lost it and it's just a matter of time before he's fired.
Exactly. I knew latter era Wengers strengths and weaknesses but at least he had strengths. What is Arteta good at?
Making Pep like him.
This is like when we all say that we want OGS to stay at ManU for 10 years
mdgoonah41 wrote:Ricky1985 wrote:Arteta has specifically said our finishing has not been good enough and needs to improve. But it's also true we have had rotten luck, as usually happens when things go wrong.
I hope reports of the club gutting the squad in January are true. Perhaps I'm alone in this - and that doesn't bother me at all btw because I am pretty stunned how the fanbase has gone after him and seemingly overlooked, or at least minimised, the shit show that is, and has been, Arsenal football club for the past... well, for too damn long - but I have seen more than enough good from Arteta over 12 months to want to see what he could actually do with a proper team, minus the pathetic wasters that make up half of our frankenstein squad.
i just cant buy into this line of thinking.
we are 10 points below fucking southampton in the table. how many points do you think arteta would manage with southampton's squad? west ham, aston villa, newcastle are all above us in the table, with far inferior squads. we have a lot of poor and underperforming players in the squad, but it is the manager's job to maximize what he has and get performances out of players. arteta did that right when he got appointed, but he hasn't done it at all this season. the team has tuned him out, there is no other explanation for it.
the squad needs to be gutted, but if arteta needs a team of 11 perfect footballers to play his brand of football, then his brand of football is a fairy tale. there is enough talent in the first team to finish 6th. the fact that we are scraping the relegation zone is an indictment on his management ability. the answer isnt more of that.
Southampton is a well run club, they use their resources well, and their squad, limited in quality as it may be, is fit for the coach's purpose. Cedric Soares' switch from there to here perfectly illustrates the different approach of both clubs - and obviously does not reflect well on the idiots running ours!
Just saying "is our squad the 15th best in the League? No! So he has to go". Is the sort of unidimensional analysis I didn't think I would see on here. And certainly the line that also crops up about Arteta needing "11 perfect footballers" is an absurd way to look at a squad that has the paltry midfield options we have.
Arteta is struggling with this lot badly. Obviously that is true. But is it because he's suddenly a bad coach or not able to motivate players to play for him? Because that clearly wasn't true for the 6 months prior to this run of terrible results. Could it be that he has a poorly put together squad that are mostly very happy with being overpaid underachievers? Or is it some of both, and if so to what extent? How much of the chaos is due to the turmoil off the pitch caused by the global pandemic that has killed the transfer market and altered the dynamics of top level football to an extent not seen before? How much has the club-created turmoil contributed, driven by the utter ineptitude of those above Arteta that have run the club in the past few years? And that's a long list of decision makers that have added to the chaos and then promptly left the building.
We were incredibly well organised, tactically spot on, exhibited a very, very well coordinated press, had clear and effective attacking patterns, even if they were mostly based around counter-attacking, and the players were clearly putting a lot into every game - that was the case for the overwhelming majority of the first 9 or 10 months of Arteta's time here. I'm not sure what has happened since, and it is slipping away from him for sure, but basking in the glory of a bit of success is hardly new to players that make up most of this squad.
January is pretty much here - big things have to happen. One of the effects of pandemic has been for us to limp through half a season with 10 players on the books that know full well that Arteta doesn't want them here, some of which have been completely ostracised because of their shit attitude too and are no doubt causing big problems - the club need to back the manager and get these players out of the club, give Arteta a chance of moulding and then controlling a squad he actually wants, that is fit for his purpose. And Arteta, for his part, needs to demand exactly that and nothing less from the club. Edu and the board cannot get away with the sort of arrogance we saw from Gazidis and others previously when they patted themselves on the back and pretented paying £70m for Mustafi and Xhaka weren't terrible mistakes that, along with 15 other mistakes, needed immediate and financially painful rectification.
Can you imagine if this was happening in front of full crowds? There are a few reasons why he is still in a job, but that has been a big factor I think.
On The Tuesday Club podcast Alan was musing about our version of This Is Sunderland. That made me laugh and cry at the same time.
on that same podcast he came up with a list of 5 managers. It was terrible. I can't remember who they were, but it included Eddie Howe. Bloody hell. I mean his Bournemouth team played some good football, but I imagine the personalities in the Arsenal squad at the moment would eat him up.
Ricky1985 wrote:mdgoonah41 wrote:i just cant buy into this line of thinking.
we are 10 points below fucking southampton in the table. how many points do you think arteta would manage with southampton's squad? west ham, aston villa, newcastle are all above us in the table, with far inferior squads. we have a lot of poor and underperforming players in the squad, but it is the manager's job to maximize what he has and get performances out of players. arteta did that right when he got appointed, but he hasn't done it at all this season. the team has tuned him out, there is no other explanation for it.
the squad needs to be gutted, but if arteta needs a team of 11 perfect footballers to play his brand of football, then his brand of football is a fairy tale. there is enough talent in the first team to finish 6th. the fact that we are scraping the relegation zone is an indictment on his management ability. the answer isnt more of that.
Southampton is a well run club, they use their resources well, and their squad, limited in quality as it may be, is fit for the coach's purpose. Cedric Soares' switch from there to here perfectly illustrates the different approach of both clubs - and obviously does not reflect well on the idiots running ours!
Just saying "is our squad the 15th best in the League? No! So he has to go". Is the sort of unidimensional analysis I didn't think I would see on here. And certainly the line that also crops up about Arteta needing "11 perfect footballers" is an absurd way to look at a squad that has the paltry midfield options we have.
Arteta is struggling with this lot badly. Obviously that is true. But is it because he's suddenly a bad coach or not able to motivate players to play for him? Because that clearly wasn't true for the 6 months prior to this run of terrible results. Could it be that he has a poorly put together squad that are mostly very happy with being overpaid underachievers? Or is it some of both, and if so to what extent? How much of the chaos is due to the turmoil off the pitch caused by the global pandemic that has killed the transfer market and altered the dynamics of top level football to an extent not seen before? How much has the club-created turmoil contributed, driven by the utter ineptitude of those above Arteta that have run the club in the past few years? And that's a long list of decision makers that have added to the chaos and then promptly left the building.
We were incredibly well organised, tactically spot on, exhibited a very, very well coordinated press, had clear and effective attacking patterns, even if they were mostly based around counter-attacking, and the players were clearly putting a lot into every game - that was the case for the overwhelming majority of the first 9 or 10 months of Arteta's time here. I'm not sure what has happened since, and it is slipping away from him for sure, but basking in the glory of a bit of success is hardly new to players that make up most of this squad.
January is pretty much here - big things have to happen. One of the effects of pandemic has been for us to limp through half a season with 10 players on the books that know full well that Arteta doesn't want them here, some of which have been completely ostracised because of their shit attitude too and are no doubt causing big problems - the club need to back the manager and get these players out of the club, give Arteta a chance of moulding and then controlling a squad he actually wants, that is fit for his purpose. And Arteta, for his part, needs to demand exactly that and nothing less from the club. Edu and the board cannot get away with the sort of arrogance we saw from Gazidis and others previously when they patted themselves on the back and pretented paying £70m for Mustafi and Xhaka weren't terrible mistakes that, along with 15 other mistakes, needed immediate and financially painful rectification.
Holy shit, Rick. This, a thousand times this.
Ricky1985 wrote:mdgoonah41 wrote:i just cant buy into this line of thinking.
we are 10 points below fucking southampton in the table. how many points do you think arteta would manage with southampton's squad? west ham, aston villa, newcastle are all above us in the table, with far inferior squads. we have a lot of poor and underperforming players in the squad, but it is the manager's job to maximize what he has and get performances out of players. arteta did that right when he got appointed, but he hasn't done it at all this season. the team has tuned him out, there is no other explanation for it.
the squad needs to be gutted, but if arteta needs a team of 11 perfect footballers to play his brand of football, then his brand of football is a fairy tale. there is enough talent in the first team to finish 6th. the fact that we are scraping the relegation zone is an indictment on his management ability. the answer isnt more of that.
Southampton is a well run club, they use their resources well, and their squad, limited in quality as it may be, is fit for the coach's purpose. Cedric Soares' switch from there to here perfectly illustrates the different approach of both clubs - and obviously does not reflect well on the idiots running ours!
Just saying "is our squad the 15th best in the League? No! So he has to go". Is the sort of unidimensional analysis I didn't think I would see on here. And certainly the line that also crops up about Arteta needing "11 perfect footballers" is an absurd way to look at a squad that has the paltry midfield options we have.
Arteta is struggling with this lot badly. Obviously that is true. But is it because he's suddenly a bad coach or not able to motivate players to play for him? Because that clearly wasn't true for the 6 months prior to this run of terrible results. Could it be that he has a poorly put together squad that are mostly very happy with being overpaid underachievers? Or is it some of both, and if so to what extent? How much of the chaos is due to the turmoil off the pitch caused by the global pandemic that has killed the transfer market and altered the dynamics of top level football to an extent not seen before? How much has the club-created turmoil contributed, driven by the utter ineptitude of those above Arteta that have run the club in the past few years? And that's a long list of decision makers that have added to the chaos and then promptly left the building.
We were incredibly well organised, tactically spot on, exhibited a very, very well coordinated press, had clear and effective attacking patterns, even if they were mostly based around counter-attacking, and the players were clearly putting a lot into every game - that was the case for the overwhelming majority of the first 9 or 10 months of Arteta's time here. I'm not sure what has happened since, and it is slipping away from him for sure, but basking in the glory of a bit of success is hardly new to players that make up most of this squad.
January is pretty much here - big things have to happen. One of the effects of pandemic has been for us to limp through half a season with 10 players on the books that know full well that Arteta doesn't want them here, some of which have been completely ostracised because of their shit attitude too and are no doubt causing big problems - the club need to back the manager and get these players out of the club, give Arteta a chance of moulding and then controlling a squad he actually wants, that is fit for his purpose. And Arteta, for his part, needs to demand exactly that and nothing less from the club. Edu and the board cannot get away with the sort of arrogance we saw from Gazidis and others previously when they patted themselves on the back and pretented paying £70m for Mustafi and Xhaka weren't terrible mistakes that, along with 15 other mistakes, needed immediate and financially painful rectification.
You talk about big squad turnovers to fix this so can you tell me what you want to see that amount to in practice?
This was so strange, do they really don't know he can play?
He is not registered. You need to be homegrown to automatically qualify like all the kids we pull from the academy.
I think you need to be under 21 not homegrown, at least this is what journalists are saying online.
Back in 2011 I opened a thread in this place arguing that Wenger was a fine manager but our squad was awful (in large part because it was Arsene's responsibility to assemble it while balancing out the club's finances).
We improved on that squad by signing Arteta, Sanchez, Ozil, and Cazorla, which meant we did put a reasonable team out there for a couple of seasons...
But then we put our hopes on the likes of Mustafi, Elneny, Xhaka, Kolasinac, and Lacazette and we collapsed out of Europe there and then.
Think about it: not a single one of those players has been part of an Arsenal team that qualified to the Champions League.
Not only that, but the one season they played in the CL (because we had qualified the previous year without them) they went out losing 10-2 to Bayern in our heaviest ever European defeat.
The sad truth is that the standard of players at Arsenal is nowhere near what it was in 2015, let alone 2005. I didn't think we'd get this squad to perform by ditching Wenger or Emery, and I don't think we'll get it to by ditching Arteta.
Mikel may well have dug his own grave by siding by Xhaka, insisting on Willian in the league, or putting an amateur goalkeeper out there yesterday... but I don't think our manager problem is even inside the top 10 biggest problems with Arsenal right now.
If Arteta wants to cull this awful squad in January I'm all for giving him more time. If he is an obstacle for culling the squad then I hope he goes ASAP.
https://www.premierleague.com/news/1869523
This suggests he is eligible
Yeah confirmed he is eligible. As long as you are u21 you don't need to be registered for domestic games. All the journos is saying that too, plus the fact we play FM 
I think what Arteta meant after the journalist pushed him further on hinted that he is not part of his squad like Guendouzi was outcasted? If not its pretty worrying our coach don't know the rules.
Ricky1985 wrote:mdgoonah41 wrote:i just cant buy into this line of thinking.
we are 10 points below fucking southampton in the table. how many points do you think arteta would manage with southampton's squad? west ham, aston villa, newcastle are all above us in the table, with far inferior squads. we have a lot of poor and underperforming players in the squad, but it is the manager's job to maximize what he has and get performances out of players. arteta did that right when he got appointed, but he hasn't done it at all this season. the team has tuned him out, there is no other explanation for it.
the squad needs to be gutted, but if arteta needs a team of 11 perfect footballers to play his brand of football, then his brand of football is a fairy tale. there is enough talent in the first team to finish 6th. the fact that we are scraping the relegation zone is an indictment on his management ability. the answer isnt more of that.
We were incredibly well organised, tactically spot on, exhibited a very, very well coordinated press, had clear and effective attacking patterns, even if they were mostly based around counter-attacking, and the players were clearly putting a lot into every game - that was the case for the overwhelming majority of the first 9 or 10 months of Arteta's time here.
Almost any professional manager can create a "well organized, tactically spot on" team by defending very deep and playing a load of defensive players. At least for a reduced period of time. That's kids' stuff. The problem with Arteta is that he doesn't seem to have any ideas outside of that, and now things are quickly collapsing.
This is my thought, getting loads of us behind the ball automatically maked us more difficult to break down but wet were still conceding lots of chances in that time. We just had a striker in clinical form.
The thing for me it's not he's just suddenly become a bad manager, I'm not sure he'd proven he was particularly a competent one.
Clrnc wrote:Yeah confirmed he is eligible. As long as you are u21 you don't need to be registered for domestic games. All the journos is saying that too, plus the fact we play FM
I think what Arteta meant after the journalist pushed him further on hinted that he is not part of his squad like Guendouzi was outcasted? If not its pretty worrying our coach don't know the rules.
You need to have been in England for 2 years to qualify as an U21 player no? Or is that just for the UEFA B list?
goon wrote:Clrnc wrote:Yeah confirmed he is eligible. As long as you are u21 you don't need to be registered for domestic games. All the journos is saying that too, plus the fact we play FM
I think what Arteta meant after the journalist pushed him further on hinted that he is not part of his squad like Guendouzi was outcasted? If not its pretty worrying our coach don't know the rules.
You need to have been in England for 2 years to qualify as an U21 player no? Or is that just for the UEFA B list?
No. You just need to be under 21 for domestic. That list is limited to 25 players.
The UEFA B-list is the one that requires 2 years. That list is unlimited.
apparently the staff that knew the rules were fired.
Why Arteta's Attack Fails While Pep & Klopp's Succeed | And Why Ozil May Not Be The Answer |
Wilson wrote:Ricky1985 wrote:Southampton is a well run club, they use their resources well, and their squad, limited in quality as it may be, is fit for the coach's purpose. Cedric Soares' switch from there to here perfectly illustrates the different approach of both clubs - and obviously does not reflect well on the idiots running ours!
Just saying "is our squad the 15th best in the League? No! So he has to go". Is the sort of unidimensional analysis I didn't think I would see on here. And certainly the line that also crops up about Arteta needing "11 perfect footballers" is an absurd way to look at a squad that has the paltry midfield options we have.
Arteta is struggling with this lot badly. Obviously that is true. But is it because he's suddenly a bad coach or not able to motivate players to play for him? Because that clearly wasn't true for the 6 months prior to this run of terrible results. Could it be that he has a poorly put together squad that are mostly very happy with being overpaid underachievers? Or is it some of both, and if so to what extent? How much of the chaos is due to the turmoil off the pitch caused by the global pandemic that has killed the transfer market and altered the dynamics of top level football to an extent not seen before? How much has the club-created turmoil contributed, driven by the utter ineptitude of those above Arteta that have run the club in the past few years? And that's a long list of decision makers that have added to the chaos and then promptly left the building.
We were incredibly well organised, tactically spot on, exhibited a very, very well coordinated press, had clear and effective attacking patterns, even if they were mostly based around counter-attacking, and the players were clearly putting a lot into every game - that was the case for the overwhelming majority of the first 9 or 10 months of Arteta's time here. I'm not sure what has happened since, and it is slipping away from him for sure, but basking in the glory of a bit of success is hardly new to players that make up most of this squad.
January is pretty much here - big things have to happen. One of the effects of pandemic has been for us to limp through half a season with 10 players on the books that know full well that Arteta doesn't want them here, some of which have been completely ostracised because of their shit attitude too and are no doubt causing big problems - the club need to back the manager and get these players out of the club, give Arteta a chance of moulding and then controlling a squad he actually wants, that is fit for his purpose. And Arteta, for his part, needs to demand exactly that and nothing less from the club. Edu and the board cannot get away with the sort of arrogance we saw from Gazidis and others previously when they patted themselves on the back and pretented paying £70m for Mustafi and Xhaka weren't terrible mistakes that, along with 15 other mistakes, needed immediate and financially painful rectification.
You talk about big squad turnovers to fix this so can you tell me what you want to see that amount to in practice?
The club making decisions and getting them right. Not limping along and making do or making decisions and getting them wrong.
What exactly I would do doesn't matter, but Arteta and Edu need to decide what exactly they're trying achieve on the pitch in terms of style and end of season (and beyond) objectives and then make good decisions about which players have more value to them here or somewhere else, generating a transfer fee and/or freeing up wages to be reinvested in more suitable players.
From what I suspect of what Arteta wants, I would speculate the players that Arteta will want to keep and build his team around are:
Gabriel
Tierney
Partey
Saka
Martinelli
Aubameyang
And that's literally it in terms of players that matter. The rest are either players that might be decent to even very good players but don't imo fit Arteta's style (Leno, Bellerin, Xhaka, Pépé, Lacazette), are replaceable squaddies (AMN, Holding, Chambers, Mari, Elneny, Ceballos, Willian), not rated at all (Macey, Cedric, Mustafi, Sokratis, Kolasinac, Özil), or are too young to have really made their mark one way or another (Runnarson, Saliba, Willock, ESR, Nelson, Nektiah (I actually think he might be on Arteta's "replaceable squaddie" list but didn't want to upset Klaus at Xmas!), Balogun). At this point David Luiz is probably on the list with Özil' too, but leaving him out entirely mid-season wouldn't be wise.
So it'll be intriguing to see what the reality actually is and then what Arteta and Edu decide to do in January/summer as a result of those estimations, if one of both of them survive that long that is!
Ricky1985 wrote:Arteta is struggling with this lot badly. Obviously that is true. But is it because he's suddenly a bad coach or not able to motivate players to play for him?
Suddenly? The difference between this season and last is that Auba isn't bailing us out by scoring way about the xG.
Ricky1985 wrote:We were incredibly well organised, tactically spot on, exhibited a very, very well coordinated press, had clear and effective attacking patterns, even if they were mostly based around counter-attacking, and the players were clearly putting a lot into every game -
We've never had good attacking "patterns" under Arteta or been tactically spot on. We were very negative and never created much. When he played a number 10 they were always isolated. The horseshoe of misery is not new, its the defining shape of Artetaball. The press was better but thats about it, thats gone as belief in Arteta has diminished within the squad.
Ricky1985 wrote:January is pretty much here - big things have to happen. One of the effects of pandemic has been for us to limp through half a season with 10 players on the books that know full well that Arteta doesn't want them here, some of which have been completely ostracised because of their shit attitude too and are no doubt causing big problems - the club need to back the manager and get these players out of the club, give Arteta a chance of moulding and then controlling a squad he actually wants, that is fit for his purpose. And Arteta, for his part, needs to demand exactly that and nothing less from the club. Edu and the board cannot get away with the sort of arrogance we saw from Gazidis and others previously when they patted themselves on the back and pretented paying £70m for Mustafi and Xhaka weren't terrible mistakes that, along with 15 other mistakes, needed immediate and financially painful rectification.
Arteta demanded Willian and got him. Demanded a new contract for Luiz. I don't have any faith in Arteta being the right man for a rebuild. He's put his faith in the wrong players and there is nothing in recent weeks to suggest he's learned anything from it
Agree with Qwiss. Even at our best late last season, Arteta's only attacking move was Tierney to Auba between the CB and RB and once opposing managers learnt to shut that down, we were done.
For me it's come down to something as simple as his starting line-up v CFC on Boxing Day.
Basically if Xhaka is reinstated then I am 'Arteta Out', and same if Willian starts as being the cherry on top.
No more 'ifs' or 'buts', simple as based upon the selections of 2 players who IMO epitomise the current struggles and all that is wrong with the team, manager's direction, and the club in a microcosm.
Completely agree with you there Anzac.
Xhaka is probably the biggest beneficiary of the managerial and technical disruption at Arsenal. He’s had so many disasters but he’s able to convince each new manager to give him a chance. If we sack Arteta now and Tuchel comes in before the transfer window, Granit might whisper sweet German nothings in the new gaffer’s ear and find himself come back alive like a video game character. If Edu stays, this is on him. He needs to fling this guy as far as his arm can throw
Honestly I don’t really care which one of Xhaka or Elneny start, but as long as it’s just one of them. Ceballos us frustrating as he can be is levels above both in so many ways.
BIG result today against CFC - Arteta needs to show he recognises what made the difference for the performance, and to then replicate this ahead of the Jan transfer window.
