Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.: Page 123 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.

Ricky1985

Gazza M wrote:
Pepe is definitely better on the counter imo. His combination play and weight of pass is actually poor, and this is more exposed against packed defense

That's true of every player. Look and Kane and Son right now, or Aubameyang in our good end to last season - it's much easier to look good with time and space, and against a backpedalling defence. So, it's the really top boys, those that can consistently score and create against deep set and well organised defences, that you have to respect - and there really aren't many of them.

goon

Exactly, no one thrives against a deep defence, like I said above it just comes down to producing a bit of quality. Some are rendered redundant, particularly the ones who rely on their pace, but Pepe actually has the tools to put in a killer cross, a great long shot and the ability to beat a man or two in congested areas. All skills that are useful in that scenario. He just needs to produce consistently.

Gazza M

Ricky1985 wrote:
Gazza M wrote:
Pepe is definitely better on the counter imo. His combination play and weight of pass is actually poor, and this is more exposed against packed defense

That's true of every player. Look and Kane and Son right now, or Aubameyang in our good end to last season - it's much easier to look good with time and space, and against a backpedalling defence. So, it's the really top boys, those that can consistently score and create against deep set and well organised defences, that you have to respect - and there really aren't many of them.

The thrust of the point was that we don't put him in those positions often enough. And he's not just average against a packed defense, he's markedly below average. That was the same problem he had in ligue 1

Qwiss

goon wrote:
I don’t buy the whole Pepe only works on the counter. He came on against a SU playing in a low bloc and changed the game. He’s also been very effective in the EL with teams that sit deep, albeit again lesser opposition. He’s got a really good cross on him and a good long shot, he’s in theory great weapon to have in that type of situation.

There’s no player or tactic that is good against a low block in my opinion, just quality. The few quality players we have in the team are all misfiring. Even the average ones are misfiring. Arteta has had a lot of criticism for his tactics, his approach etc, but my main criticism for him is how so many players are under performing.

Agree. Look at who is dangerous when we play the low block. Its Pepe who gets his shots away, finds space in congested defences, etc What does Willian offer when we face a low block? Passes back to midfield.

Claudius

But it’s also who is most dangerous on the counter? Look who is breaking out and pushing the ball to Aubameyang or giving him the cross field ball. It’s Pépé. It’s his running and passing in those open situations that makes him elite and a better option than Laca, Willian, etc.

As for against packed defenses, clearly he has the tools to get away his own shots. What he needs to continue working on is link up play. And that might be a function of both him developing and having static teammates. But he needs to move the ball around better and avail himself. He’s an isolation type player still

mdgoonah41

the two most disappointing things to me still are

a. our press is terrible
b. our off the ball movement in the middle/final third of the pitch

we should be starting games on the front foot, especially against weaker teams, to try and pin them in, force them into a mistake, and take an early lead. the game becomes a lot easier when you are 2-0 up after 25 minutes because you've pressed relentlessly and forced the other team into numerous mistakes. you can't play like that for 90 minutes, but i think we are way too passive, especially early in games. our record heading into half time over the last few years would seem to back that up. no urgency at all from the team.

the off ball movement is still really dreadful, in my opinion. its way too static and way too predictable. guys aren't trying to get into good positions and show for the ball, everything is just so slow and monotonous.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

The movement aspect has been killing me for years.

How many times have we seen our mids and attackers just spread across horizontally, high up the pitch, all just ball watching? No one darting off his marker to come short for the ball. No staggered positioning.

Absolutely amateur stuff and I really can't believe how clueless our players/coaches are.

goon

Ornstein and Romano both have been saying that Arteta is 100% safe, they love him and think it would be suicidal to sack him at this time.

I know that will infuriate some, but I think one of the good things is that it feels like for the first time in years where the club is genuinely going to back the manager. We saw it with Partey and I think we're going to see it in Jan. We just have to hope that means more Partey's and Gabriel's than the Willian/Luiz type transfers. Links of Szoboszlai, Aouar and Buendia definitely hit the right note.

Claudius

And that’s fine.
The big problems with Arsenal aren’t at managerial level. They’re above him or have been. If we can make it through the next two transfer windows and bring in some decent players and then release the right players, we might start to right things.
These players expire soon
2021 - Sokratis, Ozil, Mustafi, Macey, Luiz, Ceballos
2022 - Lacazette, Chambers, Elneny, Kolasinac, Nketiah

A really easy step is to release the entire top row and sell everyone except Nketiah from 2nd row. It still leaves us with Mr 2023, but would be a start to cleaning up the team.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

I'm glad it sounds like the club is confident in their vision, but I do wonder if some of the squad are losing trust in "The Process" / Arteta himself.

That's a whole nother ball game.

Claudius

The problem with changing a culture BBKG is that it is not something that happens overnight. It takes years. And you need to be committed. You need to be consistent and be committed. So keep the same people (hoping they are the right people), and keep doing the same things - same reward and disciplinary approaches as much as possible. Because then people believe in it after a while and say this is really new. We are playing in a new way, there are different expectations about work ethic, there are different approaches to recruitment and player retention, etc. And people can buy into that. So Mikel and Edu just need to dig in a little longer. And we all have to pray that we come out of this better and that we eventually find offense.

Kel Varnsen

goon wrote:
Exactly, no one thrives against a deep defence, like I said above it just comes down to producing a bit of quality. Some are rendered redundant, particularly the ones who rely on their pace, but Pepe actually has the tools to put in a killer cross, a great long shot and the ability to beat a man or two in congested areas. All skills that are useful in that scenario. He just needs to produce consistently.

It has nothing to do with low or high press. Pepe's problem is that he is generally very poor off the ball, and doesn't know how to consistently find or create space for himself when he's marked fairly tightly. Which he often is in the premiership.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Ornstein and Romano both have been saying that Arteta is 100% safe, they love him and think it would be suicidal to sack him at this time.

Its exactly what the club should be telling journalists. However we've seen them lie to those 2 during the summer when it suited them so I wouldn't take it as much of a statement really. Arteta is safe until he isn't.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Claudius wrote:
The problem with changing a culture BBKG is that it is not something that happens overnight. It takes years. And you need to be committed. You need to be consistent and be committed. So keep the same people (hoping they are the right people), and keep doing the same things - same reward and disciplinary approaches as much as possible. Because then people believe in it after a while and say this is really new. We are playing in a new way, there are different expectations about work ethic, there are different approaches to recruitment and player retention, etc. And people can buy into that. So Mikel and Edu just need to dig in a little longer. And we all have to pray that we come out of this better and that we eventually find offense.

Cheers. I hope there's something in this Edu-Arteta partnership.

Temo

Not sure if it's been mentioned but I wonder how much the change in formation (5-2-3 to 4-3-3) has thrown things off.

Part of why you don't wait until the last day to activate Partey's clause is exactly this. Our handling of that whole saga was worrying: that a player of that quality could be left until the last minute suggests something very very wrong with our assessment of where we are.

Claudius

Temo wrote:
Not sure if it's been mentioned but I wonder how much the change in formation (5-2-3 to 4-3-3) has thrown things off.

Part of why you don't wait until the last day to activate Partey's clause is exactly this. Our handling of that whole saga was worrying: that a player of that quality could be left until the last minute suggests something very very wrong with our assessment of where we are.

I think the Partey last day thing was simple. First prize was they had been hoping to do enough sales to land both Aouar and Partey. 2nd prize was, failing to achieve all their sales, that they would bring in just the one of them at whatever they valued them. After they failed to get Aouar's fee down to the level they valued him at, they activated the Partey clause. So I can sympathise with them given the messy summer here. But at some point, Kroenke needs to lean in and write-off the squad.

goon

I don't think it's thrown things off as much as people assume, our poor run started well before we switched. But it will probably take a while to

Qwiss! wrote:
Arteta is safe until he isn't.

Yeah definitely, Emery went from new contract talks to being sacked within a couple of months, though I think that was more Raul and less the owners who believed in him.

I do think they are fully backing him for now though, it's just a matter of how far he can test that patience. Hopefully we don't have to find out.

Sicario

There is one thing Arteta has over Emery which will give him more time.

The rapport he has with journalists/bloggers etc. I think they all like him, he generally gives good value in press conferences and generally doesn’t hide from questions. He speaks well, is coherent and has been part of the game in England for over a decade so it’s almost a case of ‘one of ours’. He’s charismatic and articulate even if it’s his second language.

Emery was almost the opposite and became a laughing stock toward the end of his reign here. This won’t happen to Arteta. You won’t get memes with Arteta or any of that ‘good ebevening’ BS that afflicted Unai.

The only thing Arteta should worry about it the growing frustration from fickle Arsenal fans who hailed him only a couple of weeks before. Luckily they are not as powerful as journalists esp with little fans present at the stadium.

lorddulaarsenal

I’m fine with giving Arteta time but we must get new players in in January. Otherwise we won’t even see 2000 fans at our home games

Claudius

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
I’m fine with giving Arteta time but we must get new players in in January. Otherwise we won’t even see 2000 fans at our home games

We have to go down into the deep water, Dula.
It is there that we will lose Xhaka, Laca and the other dirt.
We will rise again stronger behind Auba and Martinelli

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