Gazza M my one critique of comments like that (and to be fair, I don't know the context so may be picking up the wrong inferences) but I've never been a fan of (our) managers saying we deserved to win games, usually explicitly or implicitly backed up by stats other than how many goals we scored.

probably because all of his undoubtedly labyrinthine models indicate that we should have won those games, and its an outlier that we didnt. he needs to put some more weighting on the ol' goals for column

Don Pacifico yeah I'm all for stats to shed insight but I think they've been used more and more to say whatever the outcome of the result this stat shows we are the true better team or winners. They can help understand but a bit too often they seem to become the metric I feel like the arsenal vision guys sometimes go too far in that direction in how they sum up things.

On the Arteta funk thing whilst that's been true so far the other side is we seen to regularly have them and haven't devised a way to mitigate it which is a little worrying from the coaching side.

awooga83 a simple stat like xG is a very simple, sober way to assess what happened on the chance creation side of the game. At the end of the day, you win by scoring more than the other team. xG tells you if you were doing enough to make this happen. We have too many games with sub 2 xG when teams give us the low/mid block. Given variance around the mean, we don’t give ourselves enough room to win all these games. You want to be 2.5xG u moth over a goal xG Diff in order to start to make things certain.

Claudius yep I think that's fair but again needs that nuance around just because the number is bigger doesn't necessarily mean all is well because if that translates to only one or two chances in a game your are adding massive pressure to execute them which is very difficult and places very high demand on the team. Also the team stats might say we had moments but if the players on the end of them aren't great finishers your going to underperform.

Don Pacifico I've never been a fan of (our) managers saying we deserved to win games

I don't mind it. Pragmatically the real audience for this is the players. If Arteta's direction is that we don't alter our tactical outlook much because it's giving us the advantage according to the numbers, then he should be expressing total conviction and optimism about this plan.

Put briefly I never want to hear our coach talking about our progress the way that a fan would.

Burnwinter I think it depends. Underlying metrics are often used as a validation that the plan/system are working. And sometimes that's right, you need to stick with it to bear fruit.

The risk though is if it's a validation that flies in the face of increasing evidence that we just haven't got what we need to win games (eg. More ways to score goals).

So yeah, I can appreciate it has its place but I start to get concerned when it gets trotted out on a day too consistent basis (which Wenger was guilty of I think).

Sure, it only works if you then deliver the results to go with the base numbers, but the last time the question came up (this time last season more or less), Arteta did do that.

Remains to be seen how the season unfolds, but I would back us to improve results wise and earn more points than Liverpool through to match day 38 without major tactical surgery.

Gazza M i think most of us knows Jesus is finished even last year. I know there are a few who said Jesus is a legit option on the wings and keep claiming how good he was but i have never seen any consistent tangible contribution from him playing as a winger.

On current form he's jack of no trades

On current form he's a jack-off we can't trade.

At this point he's about as useful as the 1st year apprentice who's wandering around the job site still looking for the left landed screwdriver

He needs to turn this around quickly. That handful of boos will grow unless our form picks up massively.

Daz That aged well

Daz lol

Was at the game tonight. I'm really pleased for him, and us, that he pulled it out the bag, but in a way it just makes him more frustrating. To have the ability to do what he did, and all three goals were excellent in their own way, you just think - where has THAT player been for the last two years??

The first goal was a beauty, and the second, the work from Timber, Saka and Odegaard to keep the ball and play through Palace was beautiful. Really it feels a bit of an injustice the scoreline was so close cos we could have mullered them, even after a pedestrian first half.

daredevil ofcourse, it's understandable. but we're pretty goddam solid now. we have powerhouse athletes throughout our back 4. we can afford to loosen the reigns some

RocktheCasbah purple patch jesus could be artetas seasonal get out of jail card. will have to see if this form sticks, but as I said up thread, a confident gabby j absolves quite a few of our attacking sins

RocktheCasbah Was at the game tonight. I'm really pleased for him, and us, that he pulled it out the bag, but in a way it just makes him more frustrating. To have the ability to do what he did, and all three goals were excellent in their own way, you just think - where has THAT player been for the last two years??

where was that player in the first half even?