We shouldn't rewrite history here: Gnabry had lost his way in the 18 months before his departure.

I was a huge fan from the moment I saw him kick a ball for us in the U18s. The pace, that right foot, the composure and intelligence he had; I loved him and was certain he'd make it here. Certain he would become a star, in fact. But he had a serious problem with intensity, even with the youth teams. He played in short bursts and then offered nothing for long periods. He was also carrying too much weight and was unfit and that was tied to his lack of involvement across 90 minutes. He is much leaner these days and, as Dules will tell you, that makes a big difference, especially for players like Gnabry.

I think going to a club like Bayern has been good for him; no more being poorly conditoned or coasting through matches; that simply wouldn't be tolerated. I'm not sure he would have necessarily got that here, but his talent is too great not to have overcome his problems eventually.

This Gnabry; one of the best wide players in the world, is the player I envisaged materialising when I watched him in the youth teams, but after his knee problem, his poor form and doomed spell with Pulis at West Brom, I had lowered my expectations somewhat.

It was very similar with Malen, although Gnabry was the much more impressive at youth level, the talent was blindingly obvious, but they lost their way and so when they left you're not as bothered as you probably should be. As has been said by others, folks writing off Reiss Nelson should take this into consideration.

Whilst I'm delighted to see Gnabry banging four goals and humiliating the scum down the road and then sticking it to them after, it defijitely hurts that he's not doing that wearing our shirt. It was the same deal watching Szczesny tear up in his first press conference for Juve when he talked about leaving Arsenal.

These guys are Arsenal fans, but things just didn't work out and, as frustrating and upsetting as it is, some times they just don't. And to be fair, it was only when Wenger somewhat started to lose total control that this ever happened; the list of those that got away is short.

We did offer him a contract though, didn't we?

Ricky1985 wrote:

We shouldn't rewrite history here: Gnabry had lost his way in the 18 months before his departure.

I was a huge fan from the moment I saw him kick a ball for us in the U18s. The pace, that right foot, the composure and intelligence he had; I loved him and was certain he'd make it here. Certain he would become a star, in fact. But he had a serious problem with intensity, even with the youth teams. He played in short bursts and then offered nothing for long periods. He was also carrying too much weight and was unfit and that was tied to his lack of involvement across 90 minutes. He is much leaner these days and, as Dules will tell you, that makes a big difference, especially for players like Gnabry.

I think going to a club like Bayern has been good for him; no more being poorly conditoned or coasting through matches; that simply wouldn't be tolerated. I'm not sure he would have necessarily got that here, but his talent is too great not to have overcome his problems eventually.

Says a lot about Arsenal tbh. 

I’m not so bothered by the Gnabry and Jeff Reine-Adelaide moves. It feels like circumstances worked against the players succeeding at Arsenal. In the end both men are doing better elsewhere and that’s great for them. It would be worse if we had a fit player, didn’t play him, let him go and watched him flourish elsewhere. The Jose Mourinho formula basically.

Also helps that he is playing in a proper team. I imagine he wouldn’t look too different from Pepe if he was here with our poor man spacing and clueless midfield play. Bayern is playing to their strengths on the wings. We just faff

These things can absolutely happen, but you can minimise the chances of it happening. Looking back to the West Brom loan season, it was guys like Welbeck, Joel Campbell and Walcott blocking Gnabry from getting the game time, it was guys like Flamini and Coq who were clocking Bennacer from game time. The idea that if you're good enough you'll get a chance just simply isn't true, if there's a more senior player who also needs games he'll get it. Was it the right time to loan Gnabry, to a pragmatist like Pulis no less, after a difficult injury with just two years left on his deal?

On the bright side, we seem to have learned from those mistakes. Guys like Mkhi and Elneny have been shipped out, and perhaps more impressively, we made the difficult decision to let go of Iwobi in order to give the batch of kids we in our locker have a go. We also seem to have a much more thorough and considered loan process, so the chances of us repeating the Gnabry mistake have been drastically reduced. So I'm optimistic.

flobaba wrote:

Also helps that he is playing in a proper team. I imagine he wouldn’t look too different from Pepe if he was here with our poor man spacing and clueless midfield play. Bayern is playing to their strengths on the wings. We just faff

Gnabry looked good in a shit side at 17. I don't know if he'd be at the same level as he is with Bayern but he would have definitely succeeded given the chance.

Really don’t have a good feel for Gnabry while he was here. Yes he had a few strong games, but he played very infrequently against sub standard opposition is all I remember.

If you think about it, over the past 20 years this is probably the first time I feel like we've properly lost out on one of our own prospects. That's not a bad record and if you want the club to be more ruthless with deadwood in the future then you're always going to risk this happening again. Arguably losing Szczesny was also damaging but there's no way he'd realise his potential under Gerry Peyton anyway.

As a side note, imagine how triggered Chelsea fans must feel with Salah and De Bryune tearing up the league on a weekly basis.

Just checked and it seems Gnabry was here for 4 or 5 years, made 18 appearances and scored once against Swansea.

That’s not exactly glaring potential stats.

goon wrote:

These things can absolutely happen, but you can minimise the chances of it happening. Looking back to the West Brom loan season, it was guys like Welbeck, Joel Campbell and Walcott blocking Gnabry from getting the game time, it was guys like Flamini and Coq who were clocking Bennacer from game time. The idea that if you're good enough you'll get a chance just simply isn't true, if there's a more senior player who also needs games he'll get it.

This is what grates me too. About Jeff and Bennacer, we loaned them out, they both had very good seasons in France and Italy respectively, and we were all: "Oh great, the selling price just went up another two million". It tells me that how they were doing on loan was irrelevant at that point. We had already decided to ship them and just wanted something back for time and money invested. I imagine Malen was the same.

Gnabry was different in that regard. Wenger absolutely loved that kid and fast-tracked him into the first team when he was still only 17. You can't foresee a difficult ACL injury though or the recovery after that. His projected development trajectory got all messed up by it. Gnabry did not look like the same player for years afterwards, and then his contract was running out and he didn't want to extend. We would have kept him if he'd agreed to a new deal of course.

goon wrote:

These things can absolutely happen, but you can minimise the chances of it happening. Looking back to the West Brom loan season, it was guys like Welbeck, Joel Campbell and Walcott blocking Gnabry from getting the game time, it was guys like Flamini and Coq who were clocking Bennacer from game time. The idea that if you're good enough you'll get a chance just simply isn't true, if there's a more senior player who also needs games he'll get it.

While I agree in general the question is also about rating talent correctly at the time and in general. People act as if Coquelin was a joke like Flamini but not only was he a mainstay in our best midfield in a decade, he's since become a starter for a CL side - Bennacer on the other hand has had one good season and AFCON to his name

Ricky1985 wrote:

We shouldn't rewrite history here: Gnabry had lost his way in the 18 months before his departure.

I was a huge fan from the moment I saw him kick a ball for us in the U18s. The pace, that right foot, the composure and intelligence he had; I loved him and was certain he'd make it here. Certain he would become a star, in fact. But he had a serious problem with intensity, even with the youth teams. He played in short bursts and then offered nothing for long periods. He was also carrying too much weight and was unfit and that was tied to his lack of involvement across 90 minutes. He is much leaner these days and, as Dules will tell you, that makes a big difference, especially for players like Gnabry.

I think going to a club like Bayern has been good for him; no more being poorly conditoned or coasting through matches; that simply wouldn't be tolerated. I'm not sure he would have necessarily got that here, but his talent is too great not to have overcome his problems eventually.

This Gnabry; one of the best wide players in the world, is the player I envisaged materialising when I watched him in the youth teams, but after his knee problem, his poor form and doomed spell with Pulis at West Brom, I had lowered my expectations somewhat.

It was very similar with Malen, although Gnabry was the much more impressive at youth level, the talent was blindingly obvious, but they lost their way and so when they left you're not as bothered as you probably should be. As has been said by others, folks writing off Reiss Nelson should take this into consideration.

Whilst I'm delighted to see Gnabry banging four goals and humiliating the scum down the road and then sticking it to them after, it defijitely hurts that he's not doing that wearing our shirt. It was the same deal watching Szczesny tear up in his first press conference for Juve when he talked about leaving Arsenal.

These guys are Arsenal fans, but things just didn't work out and, as frustrating and upsetting as it is, some times they just don't. And to be fair, it was only when Wenger somewhat started to lose total control that this ever happened; the list of those that got away is short.

Good post.
Pretty much how I remember him.
TBF, my expectations were ridiculous as I was disappointed at his lack of productivity then but now when I look back, I see a lot of the building blocks.
Also failing at Stoke must have been humiliating and this, I assume, concentrated his mind leading to this success.

goon wrote:

These things can absolutely happen, but you can minimise the chances of it happening. Looking back to the West Brom loan season, it was guys like Welbeck, Joel Campbell and Walcott blocking Gnabry from getting the game time, it was guys like Flamini and Coq who were clocking Bennacer from game time. The idea that if you're good enough you'll get a chance just simply isn't true, if there's a more senior player who also needs games he'll get it. Was it the right time to loan Gnabry, to a pragmatist like Pulis no less, after a difficult injury with just two years left on his deal?

On the bright side, we seem to have learned from those mistakes. Guys like Mkhi and Elneny have been shipped out, and perhaps more impressively, we made the difficult decision to let go of Iwobi in order to give the batch of kids we in our locker have a go. We also seem to have a much more thorough and considered loan process, so the chances of us repeating the Gnabry mistake have been drastically reduced. So I'm optimistic.

This. 

Our loan team completely fucked up Gnabry. He was really impressive when he started his Arsenal career in the first team. He was one of the Germans featured after Ozil joined and was tearing it up at Swansea in his first few apps. If we look back at the match threads after he did not play much, there were many who were as confused when Ox and Theo keep getting selected ahead of Gnabry after the new year. (Joel Campbell wasn't in the picture tbf, totally different season) That was how highly he was rated. 

Nobody can foresee that injury the next entire year but the following year after his failed Brom loan we recalled him in January, we hardly even play him in the reserves let alone first team. There were plenty of nonsensical rumours online about how bad his fitness was and lack of discipline etc that resulted in Pulis not playing him and then the opinion changed to he is a nothing player and won't make it. 

There were high hopes of him after his olympics performance, we saw a player in him again but I really can't blame Gnabry for leaving when we can't promise him game time after that difficult spell. We also somewhat got conned by Bayern who made that fucked up deal. 

I can agree with Ricky, Wenger lost his way those days. Someone as good as him will never be able to slip through in the past. He is truly a top player now. Gnabry, Malen, JRA, Bennacer, Szczesny. We lost half a team and over 200m worth of talents. Thankfully things seem to be changing now. 

Yup. That’s why I’m not so stressed about him. And why I was not so bothered about the Iwobi transfer. Because by the time we sold Iwobi he had made over 130 appearances for us, giving him a chance to illustrate quality and trajectory. There was value in cashing in and giving an opportunity to the 3 or 4 highly rated attacking midfielders coming behind him. Already at least one of them is looking the business and, at first blush, appears to have a much higher ceiling than Iwobi.

The whole system is much better thought out right now. We are developing Willock and Guendouzi in midfield.

It’s sad that we wasted space on guys like Elneny and Lucas Perez instead of pushing our kids through, but having Edu, Ljungberg and the loans director will ensure that the first team coach has balancing forces that ensure we can prioritize between instant results and long term health.

Great goal by Hakimi. Dortmund ahead just before half-time. Now Sancho has just fluffed a one-on-one at the start of the second.

Slavia Prague looking dangerous though.

Dortmund do a good impression of Arsenal from a defensive standpoint. So open, so chaotic.

Lautaro Martinez with a nice left footed finish vs. Barca.

Cracking start for Inter, quality goal