I'm talking about ordinary time, sorry should've specified that. In ordinary time the xG was ish 3 to 1 in favor of Liverpool, and it would be incredibly silly to have a plan that, if Liverpool scored from the expected amount of their chances, would've sent Atletico out. The plan will always be to limit chances, not to give them chances and hope that they don't score. It does sound like you're underestimating Liverpool's chances as 3 is quite a big number, especially against a good team.

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

I'm talking about ordinary time, sorry should've specified that. In ordinary time the xG was ish 3 to 1 in favor of Liverpool, and it would be incredibly silly to have a plan that, if Liverpool scored from the expected amount of their chances, would've sent Atletico out. The plan will always be to limit chances, not to give them chances and hope that they don't score. It does sound like you're underestimating Liverpool's chances as 3 is quite a big number, especially against a good team.

Quincy, this is the game that I remember seeing. The first half Liverpool had a lot of very good territory and fashioned good chances. And it's not just the chances that Oblak saved, but balls that fizzed past him as well. Atletico were under a lot of pressure. To retrospectively suggest that Atletico executed some brilliant game plan because Liverpool field to convert is just being too clever. 

In extra time, however, once Firmino had scored, Atletico were the better team. I loathe Pool and their haughty fans as much as the next man, but I won't be blinded by my hate. 

Claudius wrote:

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

I'm talking about ordinary time, sorry should've specified that. In ordinary time the xG was ish 3 to 1 in favor of Liverpool, and it would be incredibly silly to have a plan that, if Liverpool scored from the expected amount of their chances, would've sent Atletico out. The plan will always be to limit chances, not to give them chances and hope that they don't score. It does sound like you're underestimating Liverpool's chances as 3 is quite a big number, especially against a good team.

Quincy, this is the game that I remember seeing. The first half Liverpool had a lot of very good territory and fashioned good chances. And it's not just the chances that Oblak saved, but balls that fizzed past him as well. Atletico were under a lot of pressure. To retrospectively suggest that Atletico executed some brilliant game plan because Liverpool field to convert is just being too clever. 

In extra time, however, once Firmino had scored, Atletico were the better team. I loathe Pool and their haughty fans as much as the next man, but I won't be blinded by my hate. 

Didn't watch the game but presumably you said Atletico only improved and took the game to Liverpool whilst scoring 3 goals in 20 minutes only after Firminho scored, and they were at risk of getting knocked out. In that case it stands to reason that their game plan was to contain and defend for as long as was possible and necessary whilst limiting their desire to go forward unless it was absolutely necessary.

The point is that Atletico did contain them in Madrid, but not yesterday. They gave away a lot of chances and Liverpool didn't score from them. The plan wasn't to give Liverpool that many chances and have them miss. It's pretty much exactly the same as saying our games went exactly as planned under Emery when we conceded far less than xG against suggested and we had shots against us all game.

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

The point is that Atletico did contain them in Madrid, but not yesterday. They gave away a lot of chances and Liverpool didn't score from them. The plan wasn't to give Liverpool that many chances and have them miss. It's pretty much exactly the same as saying our games went exactly as planned under Emery when we conceded far less than xG against suggested and we had shots against us all game.

Not to have them have that many chances and miss byt contain for as long as possibly. If they miss then no need to really change anything up unless they score and you're at risk. Especially if you as a team are confident that if you do need to go for it you can. Seemed like they were confident that they could hold Liverpool but that if required they could step their game up and go all out and get a win. Can't say I like a team sitting back fir a whole game because they don't need to attack but I can see what they were trying to do.

I don't mind a team defending when it's the only viable tactic like yesterday to be fair. I think it looked pretty obvious that Atletico had the same game plan as they did in Madrid, but couldn't replicate it as well. Then they got lucky and Liverpool were much less clinical than they usually are, and in extra time they turned the tables.

It is funny though that this is probably the worst Atletico side since Simeone got the team going years ago (they're sixth(!) behind Sevilla, Sociedad and Getafe), and the best Liverpool team in the PL era couldn't beat them.

All accurate, Quince.
Which makes it all the better. That Pool looked like they could sweep Europe and this less than vintage Atletico team came and halted them. It must all feel so painful to have suffered these 4 losses in quick succession after such a perfect season. It wasn’t long ago that their manager was talking about being above certain competition. He’s been breathing too much Merseyside air

Claudius wrote:

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

I'm talking about ordinary time, sorry should've specified that. In ordinary time the xG was ish 3 to 1 in favor of Liverpool, and it would be incredibly silly to have a plan that, if Liverpool scored from the expected amount of their chances, would've sent Atletico out. The plan will always be to limit chances, not to give them chances and hope that they don't score. It does sound like you're underestimating Liverpool's chances as 3 is quite a big number, especially against a good team.

Quincy, this is the game that I remember seeing. The first half Liverpool had a lot of very good territory and fashioned good chances. And it's not just the chances that Oblak saved, but balls that fizzed past him as well. Atletico were under a lot of pressure. To retrospectively suggest that Atletico executed some brilliant game plan because Liverpool field to convert is just being too clever. 

In extra time, however, once Firmino had scored, Atletico were the better team. I loathe Pool and their haughty fans as much as the next man, but I won't be blinded by my hate. 

I think when it got to about 5 minutes before half time, you could sense a goal was coming. So I agree the pressure was building at that time and all of the crosses, corners, long rangers and Atletico clearances meant a goal would come if it continued. And of course that's just when it did.

Before that and after that it was more controlled from Atletico. I'm not sure exactly how expected goals work, but somewhere around 2, or at a push, 3 over 90 minutes sounds about right for Liverpool (but that doesn't change the fact that Atletico's defenders stopped them scoring: Trippier on Robertson when they both got to the ball and it hit the bar, for example: no doubt considered an xG but still defended as much as missed).

What xG is unable to account for is the times Atletico got in really good positions and missed the final pass or took a bad touch etc. Costa went through in the first minute and took a bad touch and so bungled the shot, or the corner that might have been going straight in until Felipe headed it narrowly wide, or the two times Joao Felix got on the edge of the box and with time and space hit tame shots straight at Adrian--one of which he managed to fumble with Correa nearly getting to the rebound, or the time Llorente was in just after he came on but Joao Felix played the through ball behind him, or the fact that whilst Saul Niguez was offside for the disallowed goal in injury time, two men were stood unmarked behind him and were onside ready to head in.

Liverpool's pressure dropped around the 70 minute mark, I said so watching, they weren't creating much but the pressure was quite high, they dropped and Atletico came into it more and got higher up the pitch: leading to a couple of the chances I mentioned, and Lodi getting up the pitch and getting a few crosses in, and the likes of Saul and Koke stationed nearer to Liverpool's box for a spell. I think Simeone made a mistake in not bringing on Morata at that point because Felix was cooked and had wasted some big moments, as mentioned. Liverpool gave it one more push for the final few minutes but were easily repelled, with Atletico in fact pushing with the disallowed goal right at the death.

Simeone looked a picture of calm at full time, even the biased British pundits afterwarda noted as much, because he knew his side had taken Liverpool's best shots and now had 30 minutes to find an away goal. Something he mentioned in his press conference after as being an unfair advanatge that he felt his side had, and he no doubt had it in mind before the game. Atletico did what they did in extra time and the rest is history.

I wouldn't want my team to play like Atletico: I think it's high risk and you are likely to come unstuck at some point if you don't have a world class attacker or two to keep the other team honest and punish them when you get the chance; but no stat or argument will convince me that Simeone and his team didn't go there and basically have the game go 90% how they planned for it to go. And the fact is, without any real standout players, he's gone to Anfield and kept Liverpool down to 2 great chances in 90 minutes and then over 120 minutes, well, during those extra 30, he little bit smashed them up, no?

Ricky1985 wrote:

Claudius wrote:

A bit petty. This guy arrived in October or November to find a disheveled team. Let’s also blame Arteta for not getting into Champs League this year with the remnants of Emery’s gruel. 

He was appointed at the beginning of October, but that's not the point: I'm not blaming Klopp as such, I'm simply saying the stat makes no sense.

Not saying Klopp gets credit for his non european participation, the stat on tv simply said this is the first time Klopp's Liverpool haven't got to a final of a european competition they entered. Very simple, no need to have any analysis about it.

Clrnc wrote:

Ricky1985 wrote:

He was appointed at the beginning of October, but that's not the point: I'm not blaming Klopp as such, I'm simply saying the stat makes no sense.

Not saying Klopp gets credit for his non european participation, the stat on tv simply said this is the first time Klopp's Liverpool haven't got to a final of a european competition they entered. Very simple, no need to have any analysis about it.

I don't know if the stat on TV was slightly different than what you wrote, but yours implied they've been a European final every year since they took over, in which case I quite agree with Ricky pointing out it's flawed. I wouldn't be surprised if it was spun that way on TV. 

Yeah it was spun that way on tv. Sky sports was clearer with the stat

That's a decent record. We can't even get past fucking Olympiakos.

That's one way to spin it. Another way is this anointed best team of all times just lost home and away against the 6th placed team in Spain and is the first reigning CL winner since Chelsea in 2012 to not reach at least the quarter final in the season after.

While that is accurate and made me laugh heartily when it happened, our record is shit

"2016-17 - Not in Europe"

I love how failing to qualify for Europa League is used to make the stats seem more impressive

We haven't lost a CL game in three years, where's our praise?

Wasn't that the season after he took over and were behind by a lot? If Arteta came to the final this year, but didn't get fourth place and then came to the CL final I'd be happy with the progress.

Not that I don't like to laugh at Liverpool, I very much enjoy it.

Klaus wrote:

"2016-17 - Not in Europe"

I love how failing to qualify for Europa League is used to make the stats seem more impressive

We haven't lost a CL game in three years, where's our praise?

I mean, I would exchange 2 finals and 1 UCL win even if we don't qualify for europe for the previous 7 years than like say 10 consecutive last 16 achievement or something like this.

Actually I just realised if football is cancelled Atletico's victory will be in vain isn't it

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

Wasn't that the season after he took over and were behind by a lot? If Arteta came to the final this year, but didn't get fourth place and then came to the CL final I'd be happy with the progress.

Not that I don't like to laugh at Liverpool, I very much enjoy it.

In Klopp's first season Liverpool finished 8th and so didn't qualify for Europe the following season; the table looked like this when he took over:

So they weren't really behind. It's no big deal: we all know they were a bit shit for a while until they got in some very good players; I just thought the stat was stupid and irrelevant given the way it was put across.

Looks like Gasperini had Covid-19 symptoms during the UCL tie vs. Valenica, but hid it from others and later tested positive. Yikes.

Really, the only team? Are there any other teams that've been knocked out that you'd prefer to see here instead?

Would've been great if Atalanta won, but PSG have Neymar and Mbappe which is enough to beat anyone. What's good for Atalanta is that PSG are proven bottlers in the CL. No matter how much they're hammering their opponents they always seem to find a way to lose the game. Reckon Barcelona/Napoli won't stand a chance against Bayern, who are my favorite to win.

I don't like watching most European top teams I guess. I can't take any pleasure in the football unless they're in for a beating. I'd rather fold laundry than sit down and watch City and Chelsea, never mind Barca and Real Madrid.

But yeah, I think Atalanta's attack will prove too much for that hodgepodge defence, and PSG also have the disadvantage of not having played actual games for several months because Ligue 1 never restarted. I suspect Barca are in for a real humiliation against Bayern too so I might just watch that.

I actually forgot thst Ligue 1 was cancelled. That could end up being very important, yeah.

Is that first-tie Royal Rumble style? Manchester City, Real Madrid, Juventus and Lyon. Sounds chaotic.

Personally, I’d like to see an Atletico - Atalanta final. Unlike Klaus, I enjoy watching a lot of the other teams (particularly Bayern), but I am a bit jaded by the monotony of the same super clubs challenging every year on the back of their enormous budgets.

Have to say I’m really looking forward to this international tourney styled CL. Going to be very different.

That seemed deliberate from Madrid.

Saliba says he wants to be like Varane?
I guess we can look forward to more comical defending

Absolute howler by Varane.

Juve trailing as well.

Lyon have taken an early lead via a Depay penalty.

Apparently a very dodgy call by the ref.

Lyon very good so far. Juve will need a miracle to go through now

Clrnc wrote:

Lyon very good so far. Juve will need a miracle to go through now

How’s our future mid?

This is giving me World Cup vibes. Absolutely loving it.

Don't usually enjoy watching other clubs strive but as we are so far behind these guys it's starting not to matter as much anymore. Plus no Liverpool, United or Spurs who I have to worry about winning it. Can just watch the games and enjoy it not really caring much about the outcome.

Tambourine Man wrote:

This is giving me World Cup vibes. Absolutely loving it.

Don't usually enjoy watching other clubs strive but as we are so far behind these guys it's starting not to matter as much anymore. Plus no Liverpool, United or Spurs who I have to worry about winning it. Can just watch the games and enjoy it not really caring much about the outcome.

Yup. I’m just annoyed Uefa didn’t make these double headers. You would think they’d do so for their sponsors who’ve lost so much money.

Claudius wrote:

Clrnc wrote:

Lyon very good so far. Juve will need a miracle to go through now

How’s our future mid?

Silky smooth but Bruno Guimares an absolute boss in midfield

Wonderful equalizer Madrid. Nice header Benz

Benzema is ageing like a wine. Great header

Those water breaks were the worst thing in the world by the way

We must’ve been the only team it really favored.

Clrnc wrote:

Claudius wrote:

How’s our future mid?

Silky smooth but Bruno Guimares an absolute boss in midfield

I’d give up my left nut for that boy. Love his balance and composure on the ball. You need that in the middle of the park.