Pepe signs for Arsenal.: Page 38 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Pepe signs for Arsenal.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Coombs wrote:
I'm happy to see that his humility and hard work through what must be a challenging period of his career seem to be starting to pay off. I got ahead of myself when I gave up on him as an Arteta player, so I'm not going to say it's all up from here, but there are some encouraging signs from both player and coach that he might work out after all (or at least come close to recouping his fee).

Agree, Coombs. I’m encouraged. He’s on the road to where he should be, but not there yet.

This shit ain’t easy. Werner and Havertz are this year’s candidates. Werner has 9 goals and 5 assists. And Havertz has 4 goals and 2 assists. 3 of those goals in the league cup. It’s not always a soft landing

Ziyech being another example

Hakim Ziyech Football Statistics | WhoScored.com

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Emery regularly left him out

He did and it was one of a number of mistakes that ultimately cost Emery his job.

flobaba

No it didn’t, Emery lost his job because of his lack of personality /saavy with the media and fans, as well as his inability to finish in the top four. Nothing more, nothing less.

goon

Right, nothing to do with a run of 6 wins from 20 league games.

flobaba

That run of form cost him top four ultimately so we are saying the same thing.

QuincyAbeyie

Unless that run was in the following season. If top 4 and his personality were the only reason then he'd get fired before the next season.

Qwiss

flobaba wrote:
No it didn’t, Emery lost his job because of his lack of personality /saavy with the media and fans, as well as his inability to finish in the top four. Nothing more, nothing less.

If that was true at all he'd have gone in the summer.

flobaba

Oh. My bad. I misaligned the time lines. Anyway, my point is Pepe’s inclusion is probably neither here nor there when it came to his firing. Unless we are assuming that the teams form would have been significantly better with Pepe in the side. I doubt that.

Claudius

One question you have to ask yourself is why did neither manager start Pépé at first?

I would hypothesize that they both sought to stabilize the team and focus on strengthening defense. So both men immediately went to a 343 and had relatively conservative play. And sought to retain possession. And it’s hard to do that with Pépé. You actually saw similar approaches with Guardiola early in his City career, and now with Tuchel as he’s started at Chelsea. 343, balanced formation, shut the door first.

But with things more stable now, Pépé has started 6 of our last 7 Premier League games. Arteta is comfortable with the base and is willing to complicate his arrangements.

My prediction. If you fire Arteta, the very next manager will sit Pépé as well for a few weeks.

Coombs

Qwiss! wrote:
goon wrote:
Emery regularly left him out

He did and it was one of a number of mistakes that ultimately cost Emery his job.

Genuinely not just being contrary here, but I don't think that's why he lost his job at all.

Klaus

flobaba wrote:
my point is Pepe’s inclusion is probably neither here nor there when it came to his firing. Unless we are assuming that the teams form would have been significantly better with Pepe in the side.

I think there's another question to ask in that theoretical scenario. Maybe no one expected the team's form to have been significantly better with Pepe in the side, but was it because of the way Emery used him?

Either way I think both Emery and Pepe deserve some criticism of how that season went down, but I can't imagine that failing to get anything out of an £80 million signing is going into the pro column when your job is being evaluated. The club made a rather sizeable investment in new players that summer despite failing to get back into Champions League, and I think it's safe to say they didn't expect the worst start to a season in 30 years as a result.

Coombs

Honestly, considering the magnitude of the failure, they should be looking at themselves more than players and coaches.

Klaus

Raul was sacked too eventually to be fair. But I agree, the way we've been run has been a joke for a while. And it's because we're run like a joke that a fraud like Sanllehi managed to grab so much power in such a short time and make everything worse too.

Coombs

Klaus wrote:
Raul was sacked too eventually to be fair. But I agree, the way we've been run has been a joke for a while. And it's because we're run like a joke that a fraud like Sanllehi managed to grab so much power in such a short time and make everything worse too.

Indeed. I still don't think it's crazy to think that Emery could have been more successful here under better circumstances. He has fundamental flaws that he doesn't seem able to shake as a leader and as a person, which I think will always be his downfall at really big clubs, but I maintain that he's a very good coach.

Claudius

Coombs wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Raul was sacked too eventually to be fair. But I agree, the way we've been run has been a joke for a while. And it's because we're run like a joke that a fraud like Sanllehi managed to grab so much power in such a short time and make everything worse too.

Indeed. I still don't think it's crazy to think that Emery could have been more successful here under better circumstances. He has fundamental flaws that he doesn't seem able to shake as a leader and as a person, which I think will always be his downfall at really big clubs, but I maintain that he's a very good coach.

You’re absolutely right. If he came into a stable place with a functioning back office we would’ve slid into top 4. The crap we are seeing on the field is just an outcome of the disorder Kroenke has overseen

goon

I think Emery is a good manager and funnily enough I think there's a lot of overlap between his ideas and Arleta's. But I just don't think he's cut out for managing outside Spain, at least at a big club with big expectations. Half the job of a coach is being able to carry the players with you and I just don't think he'd have been able to do that, certainly not without results.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Coombs wrote:
Indeed. I still don't think it's crazy to think that Emery could have been more successful here under better circumstances. He has fundamental flaws that he doesn't seem able to shake as a leader and as a person, which I think will always be his downfall at really big clubs, but I maintain that he's a very good coach.

You’re absolutely right. If he came into a stable place with a functioning back office we would’ve slid into top 4. The crap we are seeing on the field is just an outcome of the disorder Kroenke has overseen

Agreed. IMO his tactics were fundamentally 'on task', but the players weren't the right fit for him & lacked the discipline needed to adapt.

As for KSE IMO the club issues were in place long before they came on the scene, but their lack of sports management acumen has seen us lurch from one cluster scenario into another and has been mirrored by our on field disconnect between Sanllehi and Emery during the former's power grab post Gazidis.

Anzac

goon wrote:
I think Emery is a good manager and funnily enough I think there's a lot of overlap between his ideas and Arleta's. But I just don't think he's cut out for managing outside Spain, at least at a big club with big expectations. Half the job of a coach is being able to carry the players with you and I just don't think he'd have been able to do that, certainly not without results.

IMO he's suited to a club that is stable on and off the pitch and has a genuine work ethic and tactical appreciation.
He is not suited to the role of taking on a rebuild on and off the pitch such as seen from AW and what Arteta is trying to do.

Ray

16 goals for the season. He's always been known for his dribbling, movement and finishing, and being played consistently has allowed him to show that. I think eventually he will replace Aubas goals.

Jed

Stunning player.

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