Pepe signs for Arsenal.: Page 37 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Pepe signs for Arsenal.

QuincyAbeyie

speedy wrote:
jones wrote:
He's nowhere near the level he was at Lille come on. That was a world class player shredding teams by himself here he can't get a string of starts ahead of Willian and an out of position kid with a geriatric hip ffs. Even if he's doing slightly better than before when Arteta banished him altogether this is far from "good" territory

Theirs a reason arteta laughs everytime anyone mentions pepe to him. The kid is as thick as a plank.

Love how you're both complaining that our players have no respect for the club while also casually saying that our manager is publically laughing at our players if he thinks they're shit like that would be fine by any reasonable standard. 😆

goon

Lads all of your views don't have to revolve around whether or not you like Arteta.

flobaba

Speedy is mostly correct in his evaluation of Pepe. I used the word “loose” in my prior description which I felt was putting it a bit mildly. A player who is as good as he is supposed to be does not turnover the ball as often as we see Pepe doing unnecessarily time and time again. His passing can be abominable sometimes as well as his touch and his decision making. The quality in France is totally different from England, and you can afford to take a poor touch without being dispossessed, or let him play the central role when defenses are all over the place. When you come to England and the average defender is strong and quick, and teams are comfortable defending deep, you are going to be less effective as a dribbler, and need to adapt. Pepe is only now beginning to get it, which looks like his general trend at all the clubs he has been at. It took him a while to get going at Lille also. At this rate he’ll be quite a decent player (perhaps at or close to the form that saw us shell out 70 mill for him) by next season.

I understand what Claudius means when he says Arteta is a system guy. It doesn’t necessarily imply that individual ability is negated, but rather that it is incorporated - used mostly only when the situation calls for it. It’s basically about efficiency. When you have passing options, the first choice is to do what the system demands or expects, and not just plough headfirst into a cul-de-sac and lose the ball.

Coombs

Qwiss! wrote:
We are really in "actually bad things are good" territory now if people are claiming Arteta has done well with Pepe.

Sometimes things that are bad get better. Not sure what your post is about.

goon

I think Arteta has treated Pepe unfairly, I don't think he likes him particularly as a player. For example he shouldn't have dropped him at the start of the season, and he certainly shouldn't have persisted with keeping him on the side-lines while Willian wasn't producing.

That being said, it can also be true that Arteta has improved Pepe as a player. I honestly don't care what he did in Ligue 1 or his price tag, I didn't want him based on the compilations I saw and when he came here he had a load of issues. Emery regularly left him out, Ljungberg left him out and said he needed to improve, you can't act shocked that Arteta did the same. He was wasteful, lacked focus and generally wasn't ready for the league. Now his running off the ball is among the best in the squad, both ways. He's playing a lot quicker and making better decisions and getting involved a lot more. Should or could he have gotten there sooner? I think so, but either way, he's definitely come on.

speedy

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
speedy wrote:
Theirs a reason arteta laughs everytime anyone mentions pepe to him. The kid is as thick as a plank.

Love how you're both complaining that our players have no respect for the club while also casually saying that our manager is publically laughing at our players if he thinks they're shit like that would be fine by any reasonable standard. 😆

He's let out a little chuckle a few times, then said hes great and working hard thats very different than slamming someone. You're allowed to find someone funny

Klaus

goon wrote:
Emery regularly left him out, Ljungberg left him out and said he needed to improve

I think Freddie mostly started him to be fair. That game against West Ham where we lined up with Martinelli, Auba and Pepe was as good as I've seen Pepe in an Arsenal shirt, and I think it was also Marty's first Premier League start which probably says something about Ljungberg's preferences. He wanted quicker and more offensive transitions. I think he was okay with Pepe lacking a bit in the positional game as long as he produced going forward, which is not a tradeoff that either Emery or Arteta have been willing to make.

It's a shame we never got to see more of it under better circumstances but Ljungberg's football felt more daring and attacking. I think Pepe needs that to thrive, and I'm not sure we're ever going to play that way under Arteta. That's not a criticism as much as an observation. There are pros and cons with every approach, but I don't think you can get Pepe to shine unless you trust him enough to give him room to dribble and create chances by beating his opponent. We went for Willian last summer who's a meat-and-potatoes footballer if I've ever seen one. He'll stay in his lane and do his job for 90 minutes even when he's bad at it. You always know which spaces he'll cover.

Klaus

That's not to say Pepe is blameless either; I think he's a little too soft and needs to take more responsibility for his performances.

speedy

jones wrote:
Mate listening to you you'd think we've signed some guy from the pub down the street. Lille had accepted three or four €80m bids when we got him two years ago, do clubs pay 80m so they can sign a head down player who shines against Leicester's 3rd choice LB? He's been frustrating yes and some of it is surely his fault some of it is down to atrocious game time and man management. Still your judgment is way way off on this one, even if you've never watched his actual level in France I'd say you're off about him.

He' world class in his dribbling, the worse a team he goes to the better he'll look. If you're at a decent level you need to be able to move the ball on quicky. While if your at a very poor club you can do what zaha does at palace and get everyone to defend and find zaha on the counter and let him go 1v1 in a ton of space where he doesnt need a great understanding of the game. But a top team is never going to be set up that way for him. He'd shine at palace.

I only know the pepe I've seen here, and he has a decent cross but his passing was horrific from the second he arrived. Not just bad and its only very gradually got better over time. I don't like roasting our players. I've been fair on AUba lack of effort for the first half of this season because i can see it clearly. I've been harsh on ozil when he stopped trying. I don't want to be harsh on Pepe he does try. He's capable of sublime moments so he just need to round his game off more but he still has a long way to go.

goon

Klaus wrote:
goon wrote:
Emery regularly left him out, Ljungberg left him out and said he needed to improve

I think Freddie mostly started him to be fair. That game against West Ham where we lined up with Martinelli, Auba and Pepe was as good as I've seen Pepe in an Arsenal shirt, and I think it was also Marty's first Premier League start which probably says something about Ljungberg's preferences. He wanted quicker and more offensive transitions. I think he was okay with Pepe lacking a bit in the positional game as long as he produced going forward, which is not a tradeoff that either Emery or Arteta have been willing to make.

It's a shame we never got to see more of it under better circumstances but Ljungberg's football felt more daring and attacking. I think Pepe needs that to thrive, and I'm not sure we're ever going to play that way under Arteta. That's not a criticism as much as an observation. There are pros and cons with every approach, but I don't think you can get Pepe to shine unless you trust him enough to give him room to dribble and create chances by beating his opponent. We went for Willian last summer who's a meat-and-potatoes footballer if I've ever seen one. He'll stay in his lane and do his job for 90 minutes even when he's bad at it. You always know which spaces he'll cover.

.
Yeah maybe, I'm just saying even in his brief stint he left Pepe out and hinted that he wasn't training well, or well enough to get mins ahead of two kids (Martinelli and Saka)

[size=small]“Pepe is a very good player," Ljungberg said. "But I looked at what we did in training and what I see every day and that is how I judge it.”[/size]

Even if it was temporary and a motivational tool, it's a hint that Pepe has or had his issues.

But yeah, I don't think Arteta's football, at least up until Christmas, suited Pepe at all. The 3-4-3 but also the rigid nature of it, how specific positioning was etc. It's probably why Arteta didn't play him. That being said, I think he's being given much more freedom now and encouragement to roam, while Pepe has probably matured and has smartened up. I'm hopeful personally, but I'm still not convinced Arteta see's him as his man for the long term.

speedy

Clrnc wrote:
One of his strongest points at Lille is his ability to pass through defence, throughballs to his teammate. The heads down accusation really isn't on for me as well, especially when in his first season he constantly provided a lot of attempts to pass through defence from the right under Emery

I don't mean through balls or anthing fancy, he struggled with easy passes. It was facinating how poor he was as the basics. It was like he spent his whole life just dribbling and shooting. It made more sense when it came out he didnt come through a big acedemy as they'd have rounded out his game more to basic competence.

goon

On another note, I really like how humble Pepe has been throughout. No arrogance, didn't sulk, no public comments. His agent even came out and said he's at a big club now and that it's normal to fight for your place. He even told Saliba to shut up.

Clrnc

speedy wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
One of his strongest points at Lille is his ability to pass through defence, throughballs to his teammate. The heads down accusation really isn't on for me as well, especially when in his first season he constantly provided a lot of attempts to pass through defence from the right under Emery

I don't mean through balls or anthing fancy, he struggled with easy passes. It was facinating how poor he was as the basics. It was like he spent his whole life just dribbling and shooting. It made more sense when it came out he didnt come through a big acedemy as they'd have rounded out his game more to basic competence.

Easy passes are more down to his basics yes, but not about him not looking up.

speedy

Clrnc wrote:
speedy wrote:
I don't mean through balls or anthing fancy, he struggled with easy passes. It was facinating how poor he was as the basics. It was like he spent his whole life just dribbling and shooting. It made more sense when it came out he didnt come through a big acedemy as they'd have rounded out his game more to basic competence.

Easy passes are more down to his basics yes, but not about him not looking up.

Easy passes are the prerequisite.

speedy

goon wrote:
On another note, I really like how humble Pepe has been throughout. No arrogance, didn't sulk, no public comments. His agent even came out and said he's at a big club now and that it's normal to fight for your place. He even told Saliba to shut up.

Yep that's going to be a huge part of the reason he's improving. Everyone has things to work on. DB10 worked on his game after training everyday even when he was technically already insanley good. While Ozil just poped his feet up and done nothing.

Claudius

Qwiss! wrote:
Claudius wrote:
His fundamentals are much higher than last season, back up to Lille levels. Figured out how to get him closer to goal, out of traffic, and doing more end product work. His defensive work is excellent. So yeah, Arteta is doing well with Pepe

He's nowhere near his Lille levels. The only thing Arteta did was marginalise him. The "improvement" between now and before is that he's playing regularly. Same as he looked good when he got games last summer before Arteta decided to drop him for Willian.

Arteta has done an abysmal job with Pepe.

See below.

[Twitter]

Pépé’s non-penalty goals per 90 was 0,35 in has last season at Lille. His penalties pushed him way up. He had 13 non penalty goals and 9 penalties.

He’s not just playing more regularly. He’s been played in better spots, allowing him to be more productive.

Klaus

You have to factor in playing time though. You can't say he's gotten more out of Pepe because Pepe has had a little more end product than last season in limited showings, when at the same time he is the fourth choice winger at Arsenal whereas he was a player of the season contender in the French league.

lorddulaarsenal

Love Pepe. The squad needs someone with his profile and skill set

Coombs

I'm happy to see that his humility and hard work through what must be a challenging period of his career seem to be starting to pay off. I got ahead of myself when I gave up on him as an Arteta player, so I'm not going to say it's all up from here, but there are some encouraging signs from both player and coach that he might work out after all (or at least come close to recouping his fee).

Claudius

Coombs wrote:
I'm happy to see that his humility and hard work through what must be a challenging period of his career seem to be starting to pay off. I got ahead of myself when I gave up on him as an Arteta player, so I'm not going to say it's all up from here, but there are some encouraging signs from both player and coach that he might work out after all (or at least come close to recouping his fee).

Agree, Coombs. I’m encouraged. He’s on the road to where he should be, but not there yet.

This shit ain’t easy. Werner and Havertz are this year’s candidates. Werner has 9 goals and 5 assists. And Havertz has 4 goals and 2 assists. 3 of those goals in the league cup. It’s not always a soft landing

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