Ray wrote:
goon wrote:

Sounds like he's pretty much admitting they made an error to me, and he made similar comments prior to another game.

And the initial plan was to loan him out, Arteta made it clear before Saliba even arrived back from St Ettiene that he was concerned about his experience and disruption to his 'transition year', so I'm not sure how sending him out on loan is a sign of stubbornness?

Agreed that he didn't really adapt well, he should have found a way to make him feel more involved one way or another.

He's just come back from a season loan in France, why does he need another one?

The transition period should have been Saliba playing in Europa league / Cup games and a few PL appearances here and there, and then eventually taking over next season. Arteta messed it up by completely removing him from the first team, and refusing to admit he has handled this wrong. I honestly don't see what he is going to gain from 6 months in France again apart from game time (which isn't going to necessarily help his transition to the PL). It seems to me like Arteta just wanted him out the picture and not having to answer questions on why Saliba isn't in the squad every other week.

Sorry to go all Arsene Wenger on you but I'd trust the opinion of a football pro over a a forum poster, no matter how much I respect you guys.

Arteta and his team assessed him and decided he wasn't ready to the point they felt a loan was appropriate. The mistakes made were as per Qwiss' post.

There is literally zero factual or quoted evidence to suggest Arteta wanted him out of the picture...if that were true, why not sell him?

I've never gotten that logic. Do you agree with every line-up we field, every sub, every signing? They're all done by football pros and we're all forum posters.

I trust a pro on how best to develop youth players, yes.

But since I assume you have your own opinions and that they're not always the same as what actually happens, what separates the football-related things where you go "they know better than me" from the football-related things you have your own opinion on?

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

But since I assume you have your own opinions and that they're not always the same as what actually happens, what separates the football-related things where you go "they know better than me" from the football-related things you have your own opinion on?

Fans are entitled to have opinions, particularly where we have actual tangible evidence (ie. Watching matches is tangible evidence to form an opinion). But where the is little to no tangible data (eg. Player development), I'd trust a pro who has been through that process.

Speaking of Wenger this is what he had to say "If I have a young central-defender of 20-years-old, I know he will cost me points in the season, and I have to stand up from that,"

"If I play a 28-year-old centre-back, maybe less talented, he will cost me less points.

"But I will not give a chance to a young player and at some stage I must say as a manager sometimes you feel lonely to stand up there and say, 'No, I want this boy to play because he deserves it.'

He had his mistakes, but when it came to developing youth players, he had a nose for it, Arteta hasn't done anything to prove he has yet.

Anyway, let’s look forward

[Twitter]

  • he’s made the squad tomorrow
  • their senior defender, the veteran Brazilian Dante is out injured for the season
  • since then, they’ve been playing a variety of lineups. Vieira had pretty much a different formation every game from Dante’s injury until he got fired.
  • Robson, Pelmard and Nsoki are the most frequently used defenders, typically in a back 3. But even Morgan Schniederlin has dropped in from midfield.
  • Robson was red carded in their last game... so they are very desperate. Saliba MIGHT go straight in
  • other point of interest will be the Jeff who usually plays midfield. Gouiri an AM who I mentioned in the summer is another Lyon recruit with 8 goals and 3 assists this season
Ray wrote:

Speaking of Wenger this is what he had to say "If I have a young central-defender of 20-years-old, I know he will cost me points in the season, and I have to stand up from that,"

"If I play a 28-year-old centre-back, maybe less talented, he will cost me less points.

"But I will not give a chance to a young player and at some stage I must say as a manager sometimes you feel lonely to stand up there and say, 'No, I want this boy to play because he deserves it.'

He had his mistakes, but when it came to developing youth players, he had a nose for it, Arteta hasn't done anything to prove he has yet.

This is predicated on the notion that Arteta doesn't trust youth. Nketiah, Saka, Tierney and Gabriel suggest otherwise.

Tierney and Gabriel are hardly youth. Takes a lot of guts to stick a 18-21 year old in a defensive position to develop.

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

I've never gotten that logic. Do you agree with every line-up we field, every sub, every signing? They're all done by football pros and we're all forum posters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect#:~:text=The%20Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger%20effect%20is,recognize%20their%20lack%20of%20ability.

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from people's inability to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, people cannot objectively evaluate their level of competence.

Thank you dear devil, I will definitely read that article.

Ray wrote:

Tierney and Gabriel are hardly youth. Takes a lot of guts to stick a 18-21 year old in a defensive position to develop.

Guts or stupidity?

How many young players did Wenger stick into the Arsenal line up in his first two seasons as manager? Particularly in defence?

Things were a bit different back then. There wasn't much scouting going on, and not much transfers from abroad either, so where was he gonna get a bunch of youth players from when he arrived? He had to buy them first. He did make a 20 year old Vieira who was coming off reserve football at Milan his most important player right away though. And a lot of the youth we have produced since, particularly the current lot, is because Wenger helped to refine the club structures.

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

Thank you dear devil, I will definitely read that article.

😆

look ultimately as long as we don't flog him,  and he turns into the serge gnabry of centre halves, its ok. he seems pissy because he was probably given some level of assurances on playing time by raul/emery and feels hard done by