for where we're going, marti is as good as it gets as a squad/bench/high minute rotation option. he's almost going into the feo zone, where the numbers are there but theres certain key elements that never quite develop. before making a final decision on whether he's starting material, I want to see him with merino for an extended run. have a feeling that guy is going to make alot of seemingly brainless players look better
I feel pretty certain Arteta doesn’t tell Martinelli to run head down into cul-de-sacs. Or to play bad passes, or take too many touches. He helps us keep our width and balance with his pace, but he’s just crud in the final third. At the level we are playing at, we need efficient players. That’s what Martinelli’s game is lacking, and doesn’t seem to be improving over time.
Martinelli is street footballer. He was developed very late in his teens as compared to all his peers. His game has never been refined much but has now stagnated and been found out by defenders making him extremely easy to defend against.
Arteta needs to give him some 1 on 1 coaching or something. His attitide and application is spot on so surely we can improve the current incarnation of him through coaching.
RowJimmy Some days this is true, but it can't be denied almost every "action" was poor versus Villa. Ball to Rice on the byline overhit, cross wasted behind the play ... he wasn't in great shape even by the frustrated standards he's been managing.
I think there's a bit of an overreaction here. @flobaba and @Clrnc, do you really believe Arteta would let Martinelli keep playing if he drastically changed his style without direct instructions? You think Martinelli just decided on his own to stop getting into the box to score or to stop coming inside like he did when Xhaka and Zinchenko were in the team? And now he's just hugging the touchline and throwing in cross after cross to our new signing Havertz and to win corners last season without any guidance from Arteta? It definitely seemed like a tactic which can be seen by our confidence and results in scoring from corners.
It's hard to imagine that anyone at the club would be allowed to go against the detailed instructions the manager gives and still keep getting picked. That applies to everyone, including Odegaard and Saka let alone Martinelli. Let's wait and see if our setup changes again once Merino is in place and if that unlocks our left side again.
Edit: this is not to say he is struggling a bit, he clearly is. But getting to the root cause of it is the issue and I don't think it's as simple as saying he is a poor player or whatever because he isn't. His execution at times has been off, and you can see there is a confidence issue there. Just need to get him out of his head, but the good thing is that even when he isn't confident you never see him hiding. If anything he tries to force things that aren't there.
He's making the game harder for himself. I was reading Super Tross' comments. He said while on the bench he had noticed space behind the defence and when he came on, he told Gabriel to look for him with a ball in behind. It's that simple. Arteta or any other manager can give you the "instructions", but your job is to make an impact in your position or to make the opponent react and adapt to you. You get in the game and figure out how to make a difference. How does Trossard come in and within minutes create two or three goal threatening situations, while Martinelli is out there for 65 minutes and basically does nothing throughout? Burns has called out the moments. Get down the byline but can't get the cross in, bad pass down the line when Rice makes the run. Faffing around with the ball, and can't beat your man one v one whether it's Matty bloody Cash or some random kid. Counter attack where we are 3 on 2 if he executes the pass to Odegaard properly (that was a tough one to get right, admittedly, but still the ball he ends up playing is too far ahead of Odegaard and too far behind Saka). Plus like Clrnc notes, he has zero variation to his game. Head down, one speed.
It's not good enough. And his ball recovery/ defensive work isn't as outstanding as it used to be either so it's hard to justify him starting these days.
I'm not sure if it is by design, because Trossard doesn't offer any of those qualities, and he displaced Martinelli in the final third of last season, and will likely do the same very shortly.
If it is by design, then Martinelli is ill suited to the role and wishlisting players like Kvara or Williams is pointless because they will have similar issues.
A natural left footer who can hug the touchline and cross and pass from wide would be far superior at performing the role and would nicely dovetail Trossard giving us both an inverted winger and natural winger to choose from.
Likewise, playing Martinelli on the right allows him to provide width and cross the ball with his natural foot whilst giving us something different to Saka.
This is it. When Trossard plays he does it in a completely different way and regularly drifts off the left.
Martinelli is doing exactly what players out of form shouldn’t. He’s overplaying and overthinking rather than doing the basics. He’s trying to do ‘something’ rather than just playing the simple pass and find a more dangerous position, as he would if he was in form. He ignored Rice repeatedly because he wanted to do something himself.
Im not worried about him, but I would have thought his game would have matured more by now. It’s a little concerning how few shots he gets off on goal.
I think Martinelli is a lot closer to getting back to form than he was in the second half of last season. The issues he had yesterday were the sort of thing that can change very quickly. Passes just slightly off, a bit of unwillingness to go for goal, etc They'll come back with games and confidence. He got loads of the ball, found loads of space, created plenty of chances. He was winning his duels too and beating people 1 on 1. I think people let in game frustration cloud their judgement of his actual performance.
Remember 2 seasons ago when Jesus just joined, Martinelli was cutting in for fun and crossing with his stronger foot for him to head in? We have seen so little of that these 2 seasons. I really don't think it's by design, but I am also a little disappointed with the progress he is making as a winger given that it was highly publicised Arteta finetuned Sterling's game and made him a far better winger etc.
I don't think it's just a confidence issue either, he hasn't really grown as a player for the past 2-3 seasons with or without goals. His overall performance as a player is highly lacking and all of us kept saying he will come good, but his trajectory is downwards. All the points above are valid imo.
Just remember last week, there was a moment he made a good run, we found him in open space, he dribbled into the box with 2 players free in the middle, but he decided to shoot into the side netting. It reminds me of Nketiah, too eager to impress.
From the MOTD highlights, it seems like Villa opted to trade leaving Martinelli unmarked and in space in return for blocking Rice and Partey from getting on the ball. Think it's indicative that they viewed Martinelli as the least significant threat for us so it's no surprise that he gets on the ball a lot but that's partly because teams would rather take that chance than have any of our other players given that much time or space.
Mirth I watched the MOTD coverage too. Martinelli takes up space like that most games. It's less about Villa and more what we do.
In fact most of their coverage was like that. Made out like Villa had been brilliant defensively and kept us completely quiet when the reality was that we scuppered plenty of good opportunities in their box.
Martinelli use to play stylistically like Sanchez. Now Martinelli plays exactly like Kingsley Coman and plays exactly as well as Kingsley Coman. Kingsley Coman is a clearly excellent footballer that doesn't get a huge amount of goals and assists. Being a monster at carrying an receiving the ball deep gives us the platform to dominate games. Martinelli is still really good. He did have a bad game yesterday*, though. That's about all there is to it.
* Though he certainly had a better game than Rice or Havertz. I also don't think Saka or Odegaard did anything that was so much better either.
Clrnc — I think this is a fair take, and tough for me to swallow as I’ve always been big on Martinelli.
A few thoughts to add:
I do think Havertz drifts more to the left channel and in turn there’s not a lot of space for Martinelli to cross into him (as you described to Jesus’ head). Seems that Jesus played more centrally, or perhaps even favored the right channel slightly. That was an effective use of Martinelli as defenders are so scared he’ll run by them that it’s easy for him to stop short, and cross.
When Martinelli is put through these days it feels like too often he keeps the ball on the outside (left foot). I’m not sure if he’s overly confident about that tactic, or if it’s by instruction so it isn’t as easy to take by a central defender. Regardless it’s not working and he needs to drive centrally and use his pace to stay ahead of defenders with the ball on his right.
If it was one bad game then fair enough but Mart been on a downward spiral for over 12 months now.
Forget stylistically, players like him should be judged on goals and assists and it’s simply not good enough.
The problem with Martinelli IMO is that he doesn't really 'see' and process the game, unlike the likes of Saka (and Sterling). He is not the most intelligent player, and he relies on intensity, instinct, unpredictability, and therefore on confidence. I am not sure how coachable he is as a result. He also has serious technical limitations from how one-footed he is on the dribble and how loose his touch is.
That said, he can still be a useful player in our squad, and we need to maximize him and help him regain his confidence. Transfers can't solve everything, or at least not right away, and we have to use what we've got. He can be one of the best 5-6 forwards in a title-winning squad.
If Martinelli's winning corners, he's doing a useful job for us. Emery specifically celebrated the fact Villa had held us down to only one corner after the match, but in part that's because Martinelli's execution was notably poor. In fact, his execution versus Villa was far poorer than it has been on the whole.
Trossard also made the case for himself as a starter and this was touched on in his post-match interview. The press are now beating his comments up as having been "I should start". Truth is Trossard didn't say any such thing explicitly and was diplomatic, but his muted goal celebration together with all that tells its story clearly enough.
Despite having a shocker against Villa, Martinelli is not "spiralling downward". His struggles to be effective have been roughly the same for a full season, they're not really getting worse or better. There are several causes:
If Martinelli continues in rubbish form I would guess Arteta will drop him again and play Trossard. However, it's not going to be a pure upgrade. Martinelli actually does offer us qualities that Trossard doesn't: foot speed, width and defensive effort for example.
Jesus meanwhile is injured yet again. Jesus, in my opinion, is the biggest liability among our strikers. He's burdening us with high wages, he is very regularly unavailable or recovering to his best physical shape and form, even at his best he underperforms the xG we produce around him, and he can't run out 90 minutes. He is a top player on his day but it's just not enough.
Here's two things that may change the current dynamic:
The real setback over the next week would be if this situation means we hang on to Nketiah. That'd be a bad mistake in my opinion.
He really needs to step up to increase our chances of winning the league/finishing ahead of those robots.
Let's face it, this guy is f*cking up our plan A right now. It appears to me we use our right side to build up/do all the creative stuff and then look to quickly release the player on the left, similar to how Leverkusen have their creative players on the left who often look to release the "runner" (Frimpong) on the right. I think this is how Mikel pictures our attack functioning but Martinelli's poor form has been forcing him to try something different with Trossard who, to be fair to him, has been delivering the goods, but we all know he doesn't represent plan A long-term.
We need to add that transitional element to our attack for this team to realise its full potential. I don't know what to expect of Sterling after his inconsistent showing for Chelsea but if he recaptures the form he had in the early part of last season, then this role represents a path to him nailing down a spot in the team if Martinelli's poor form/lack of confidence continues.
