Anzac wrote:

Muswell Hill Gooner wrote:

I don't think we need another Denilson with a good first touch who doesn't get dispossessed because he plays the safe sideways pass all the time. Even Ozil who has topped assist charts for his whole career stopped making forward passes and turned into this last season and contributed something pathetic like 3 assists from a high of 19 (i think) a couple of seasons earlier.

You need to watch the player on the pitch rather than only using stats then you would realise why a player with Zaha's style of play (takes on defenders every time) and position on the pitch (forward line) would have a high rate of being dispossessed.
Emery is not an idiot who will simply buy a player because he is available. Any interest would come after analysing what benefit he would be to the team.

Just so we don't waste too much time on this, i also don't want Zaha but my main reasons are the price and the sell-on fee.
I don't dismiss him for not being elite as we are not elite ourselves and not likely to be elite any time soon.

His stats are nearly double that for the likes of Hazard and Sterling who are either side of him in terms of dribbles per game.

I doubt if there is any interest in Zaha at all as there have been no reports of any bids made or discussion with either Palace or the player himself, unlike the talk reported re Tierney or Carrasco.

You may not have noticed that we haven't been so stupid as to bid for Hazard/Sterling.
They are elite players who would not be interested in playing for a Europa team.
Zaha is better than what we have.
That alone, says it all!

Anzac wrote:

Muswell Hill Gooner wrote:

It's not a joke.
Palace don't want to sell their best player so are using the price as a barrier.
I wish we had done the same when Barca came for Cesc.
Its kind of similar to how Liverpool and spurs got stupid money for Suarez, Coutinho and Bale.

You can blame AW for that = he went against the club 2x in favour of firstly selling him and then by telling them to accept Barca's offer in order for him to go.  AW should have been sacked then and there.

PHW didn't want to sell but AW had a gentleman's agreement with Fabregas after getting him to stay the previous season.  PHW then placed a fee of 54m on him (this is before the TV deals skyrocketed, and AW said he'd agreed to let him go if a decent fee was offered, with 30m being considered decent at the time.  AW then haggled for the extra 4m and buy back option and Barca then signed Fabregas and immediately implemented a release clause of over 50m.

That Cesc fee was a scandal at the time. How Wenger thought it was gentlemanly to let cesc, and Henry go at those prices, get everyone was getting more for their players was a disgrace

Muswell Hill Gooner wrote:

Anzac wrote:

His stats are nearly double that for the likes of Hazard and Sterling who are either side of him in terms of dribbles per game.

I doubt if there is any interest in Zaha at all as there have been no reports of any bids made or discussion with either Palace or the player himself, unlike the talk reported re Tierney or Carrasco.

You may not have noticed that we haven't been so stupid as to bid for Hazard/Sterling.
They are elite players who would not be interested in playing for a Europa team.
Zaha is better than what we have.
That alone, says it all!

Easy to do when we don't have any equivalent wide man in the squad unless counting the likes of Nelson and Co.

I see no benefit in a show pony with little end product and who ranks #1 for being dispossessed a full 1.1 times per game on average ahead of the player in 2nd.  Sanchez used to get given a hard time on here for exactly that, and yet he was our most effective forward with any 'X' factor and he had end product to go with it.

ohboy!!! wrote:

Anzac wrote:

You can blame AW for that = he went against the club 2x in favour of firstly selling him and then by telling them to accept Barca's offer in order for him to go.  AW should have been sacked then and there.

PHW didn't want to sell but AW had a gentleman's agreement with Fabregas after getting him to stay the previous season.  PHW then placed a fee of 54m on him (this is before the TV deals skyrocketed, and AW said he'd agreed to let him go if a decent fee was offered, with 30m being considered decent at the time.  AW then haggled for the extra 4m and buy back option and Barca then signed Fabregas and immediately implemented a release clause of over 50m.

That Cesc fee was a scandal at the time. How Wenger thought it was gentlemanly to let cesc, and Henry go at those prices, get everyone was getting more for their players was a disgrace

As I said AW should have been sacked for putting the player ahead of the team and club.

Was the Cesc fee that bad? What was his fee back to Chelsea?

Claudius wrote:

Was the Cesc fee that bad? What was his fee back to Chelsea?

Joined Barca for 29m Euros plus 5m add ons in 2011, then joined CFC in 2014 for 33m Euros = same price as Barca paid 3 years earlier.

So where is this massive discount?

The massive discount was because Cesc, when he went to Barca, was one of the best players in the world. Didn't quite work out there and Barca ended up selling him as a reject who didn't fit their style. I think 2011 Fabregas was easily worth more than 2014 Fabregas given the circumstances.

Claudius wrote:

So where is this massive discount?

Bearing in mind, Chelsea paid that price when Cesc was 3 years older, and had been completely shit at Barca.

There were rumours at the time that at a minimum Cesc would have fetched at least £50mil, especially Real were rumoured to be interested at £50 - £60 mil but he didn’t want to go there.

That is when “Barca DNA” was initiated, and Barca were quite open at the time saying they didn’t want to pay too much, as Cesc was originally theirs

Then Cesc came out with, he only wanted Barca etc.

Did you guys watch Barca Cesc? The guy was butter. He just had issues owning a position amongst Iniesta, Xavi and Messi. But within those constraints he was every bit as good as the player we saw here. This Cesc sucked at Barca narrative belongs on Fox News.

I remember that slightly differently, to be honest. He was booed by fans, ticked off by both Guardiola and Martino, team-mates (I remember at least Pique) made snide references to his lack of discipline and so on. No one's saying he was like Ozil with Arsenal, but he was definitely damaged goods by the time he was squeezed out of Barca.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/cesc-fabregas-i-signed-for-chelsea-because-barcelona-fans-didnt-like-me-anymore-a3114996.html

Oh. I don’t dispute the issues with the fans. But that was misplaced angst.

Off topic - but I still suspect AW converted Fabregas to play as CAM at least partly to put off any talk/speculation from Barca of him being the heir apparent for Xavi. By the time he went there he was probably closer to Messi (in terms of his role as goal scorer/creator) as anyone, and that was only ever going to finish one way.

Barca mistimed that transfer. They should’ve done it at the time when Fabregas moved to Chelsea. We would’ve had close to a decade of Fab, they would’ve had their Xavi heir, and we probably get a bit more cash. Everyone’s happy. We move on and get our Fabregas replacement.

That Fabregas moved under those circumstances was also indicative of the mess we were in. This was before Ozil and Alexis. We were in a dark place when he wanted out.

Claudius wrote:

Barca mistimed that transfer. They should’ve done it at the time when Fabregas moved to Chelsea. We would’ve had close to a decade of Fab, they would’ve had their Xavi heir, and we probably get a bit more cash. Everyone’s happy. We move on and get our Fabregas replacement.

That Fabregas moved under those circumstances was also indicative of the mess we were in. This was before Ozil and Alexis. We were in a dark place when he wanted out.

AW should have also been sacked re the shit show our end of season form post the CCup debacle v Brum.
Then there was the Fabregas & Nasri shit fest, followed by the OT 2-8 debacle & ensuing trolley dash on the last day of the transfer window.  AW proved at that point in keeping his job that he was Teflon coated & the club CEO and BoD didn't have a frakking clue between them. Still shits me that he managed to steal a living for another half dozen years and effectively fuck us over big time in the last 3-5 seasons.

I want to cry. Or smack someone.

Claudius wrote:

Did you guys watch Barca Cesc? The guy was butter. He just had issues owning a position amongst Iniesta, Xavi and Messi. But within those constraints he was every bit as good as the player we saw here. This Cesc sucked at Barca narrative belongs on Fox News.

To a point. I mean he was still good in the same way Thierry was still good for them, but like Cesc it's no comparison to the Thierry who dominated here in his peak. The dip pre-dated Cesc's move there though, injuries/fatigue had taken it's toll for at least a couple of seasons before he left the so the point with regards to the fee is still valid.

So why did he come in and dominate at the beginning of his time with Chelsea? Exact same player. Until around February-March of that first season he was completely untouchable

I don't think you can use 4 good months out of 48 as evidence that he still was at his peak.