Shady wrote:Have to see what we do in the transfer market.
If we are stuck with a shit squad, then even if we sack him and get someone else in, we will still have a shit squad.
In that scenario just give it to Freddie and he can use all the kids he knows so well. Fuck it I'd be down.
Shady wrote:I think as a club, it is absolutely vital that we get this summer right and secure Champions League football, otherwise we will be in trouble.
United are going to waste another year on Solskjaer, while Chelsea will lose Hazard and suffer a transfer ban.
If we miss out again, I fear we'll be locked out of the top 4.
3 years sounds like a lockout. We are the best of the also-rand 
We actually need to do something big this summer to convince fans and recruits. More of the same will yield.. more of the same
Emery's job is safe now and i believe he will get the extension as Sanllehi, the guy who will make the decision, is in his corner.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/11731072/unai-emery-some-arsenal-players-must-leave-after-europa-league-loss
Pathetic article.
He should resign , pathetic management.
I tend to think we shouldn't extend regardless, but certainly think he should get another season. Target is entirely contingent on the window.
He should get another season with a squad of his own making. His goal should be serious competition for Top 4, where even if we don't make it it's not because we weren't competitive. This season, we were only one point away but deserved to be 6-7 behind.
I suspect the best Emery can hope to achieve is to make us more competitive, if not in terms of results then more so in terms of performance and effort. The obvious 'target' is our fragile mentality and Away form. However to do this we will need to do a couple of things to take place, the first of which is to replace half the match day squad with players better suited to his game plan, and the second is to bring some pride back to representing the club.
I'm prepared to wait for aesthetics and/or success as IMO the lack of 'heart' is our single biggest issue.
Just a thought as to Emery & the requirements.
I'm probably over thinking things but the more I think about our financials the more I think that Emery's appointment was with this off the field transition/rebuild in mind as much as the on field transition. Not so much as being able to rebuild a squad based upon younger players, but more so because he is a Europa specialist. I suspect that our strategy during this transition/rebuild is that whilst the PL remains the ultimate measure as a football club, the Europa is perhaps of primary importance in terms of regaining top4.
There have been suggestions that Emery prioritised the Europa over the PL in the run home and effectively gambled on our being able to accumulate the points but underestimated our propensity to collapse. I suspect that there will be frank discussions held and the message being that a repeat will see next season being his last, and that in a similar position the priority will be the bird in hand as opposed to trying to both have our cake and eat it too.
As such IMO Emery's objective is not to rebuild the team but to regain CL, and his ongoing employment beyond a 2nd season will depend upon this. I'm wondering if they are not as yet willing to gut the squad as opposed to still trying to tweak it in order to try to still get the maximum out of our current resources without needing to spend to replace/rebuild, and that the 'real' action will take place after we regain CL status.
That's not how it works. To regain CL status you have to invest in the squad with quality players and have good management. You can't hope for the best with the same mediocre players and expect to make it. Wenger always gambled and lost , Emery wasted our best chance to secure CL by league position with dumb decisions that even a small time Sunday league manager would have gotten right.
GooneriC wrote:That's not how it works. To regain CL status you have to invest in the squad with quality players and have good management. You can't hope for the best with the same mediocre players and expect to make it. Wenger always gambled and lost , Emery wasted our best chance to secure CL by league position with dumb decisions that even a small time Sunday league manager would have gotten right.
MU proved that it can be done & then went on to finish 2nd in the PL the following season.
manu proved nothing.
They scraped through the round of 16, were almost knocked out in the quarters and hung on in the semi by the odd goal so it's fair to say they gambled and won.
Bold Tone wrote:manu proved nothing.
They scraped through the round of 16, were almost knocked out in the quarters and hung on in the semi by the odd goal so it's fair to say they gambled and won.
IIRC Morinho said he didn't prioritise the Europa until the late stages.
Regardless of this they won the Europa and regained CL despite finishing outside the top4 = mission accomplished.
How much later than the semi's can you get?
Anyway fuck em and let's get back to Emery.
As of now, i cannot see us getting anyone better but that doesn't mean he should be immune from fair criticism.
http://7amkickoff.com/index.php/2019/06/01/how-can-anyone-be-emery-out-after-just-one-season/
He needs to begin to address the major failings in the squad and getting rid of the guys who are nowhere near good enough of which we have worryingly a lot. Start to rebuild the squad and have the team back in the top 4. If we are in a similar place next season then he will be culpable.
Also call the board out if they are proving to be an obstruction otherwise I'd find him as to blame as them if he stays silent.
Emery performed about as well we predicted at the beginning of the season. With 17 votes cast, the average position was 4,1. with 4 voting 3rd, 5 voting 4th, 4 voting 5th, and 3 voting 6th. Clearly there was some spread and uncertainty there about both our team and our rivals.
My assessment of Emery's overall season is a B-. I think he did quite well. Here are the highlights
Lowlights
Context
We've been told that the summer transfers were discussed as early as Oct last year so the DoF is essentially irrelevant this summer.
The point missed in the context IMO was the significance of the season ending injuries, and the change of shape the necessitated to return of the players previously on the outer, and even more so when Rambo was ruled out as we lost his non-stop work rate as well as his big match performances.
That said I agree that Emery and the new structure should not be immune from criticism, however that criticism and the decisions made this summer should be made in relation to the original intent and objectives behind Emery's signing. To that extent I think they are thinking along the lines of a 2 year plan to regain CL either by PL top4 or more likely via Europa (given the cluster f*ck our finances are in), after which if that has not been achieved then the squad will be gutted and we move on to plan B and a longer time frame (at which point I do not think the club will extend Emery beyond the initial 2 season deal).
At this point whilst we are still on Plan A I do not think the quality / aesthetics of the performance is important as the aim is to regain CL - nothing more and by which ever means we can. I also think that our top4 challenge was somewhat unexpected and actually worked against us as it meant we could not focus on one or the other. By this I mean that the reality is that the squad is not top4 quality as every pundit said throughout the season - if anything the top4 challenge has also worked against Emery because of the way we fell apart in the run home. Even so IMO the collapse at the end of the season was little different to our previous annual collapses during the 3 week window in Feb-Mar each season under AW, including the relegation form shown after the CCup Final loss to Brum.
Only once we have regained CL do I think that the performance becomes an issue as a big part of the success of plan A relies upon doing so with much of our current resources. However if we need to go to plan B next season then the performance needs to become far more important as we transition the squad, and I suspect Emery's pragmatism will not provide the long term product we want to become identified as.
Claudius wrote:Emery performed about as well we predicted at the beginning of the season. With 17 votes cast, the average position was 4,1. with 4 voting 3rd, 5 voting 4th, 4 voting 5th, and 3 voting 6th. Clearly there was some spread and uncertainty there about both our team and our rivals.
My assessment of Emery's overall season is a B-. I think he did quite well. Here are the highlights
- He was competitive in several big 6 games, beating Chelsea and coaching the game of the season versus Spurs
- He managed an incredible 22 game unbeaten run that resurrected us in the fall
- Showed great tactical dexterity between and within games
- Pushed forward and resurrected players like Lacazette, Bellerin, Holding, AMN, Guendouzi
Lowlights
- Struggled to balance Europa League line-up and League line-up in the final weeks, ultimately costing us an easy 4th place finish. Cost us 30m+ in transfer fees in the process and a lot of pride on all sides
- Unable to get his head around the defence. 50+ goals in the league is unacceptable unless you have Championship ambitions
- Might seem counter to everything else, but given that I was never really interested in the Top 4 this season anyway, I am a bit annoyed that he gave up on his project when the going got tough in January and reinstated Oil and co in the line-up as permanent fixtures. It got us wins in the short run, but I don't think it serves the longterm squad building aspirations. I would rather we had died building something than lived with Ozil sauntering around
Context
- As per the Raul interview, he was obviously dealing with the intrigue of the Ramsey contract situation and that surely played into Ramsey's squad situation. I will not lay blame at Emery for Ramsey's squad role this season. It seems there was a larger play
- He is still playing with a team of misfits. That said, it is for him to push Raul to sort it out now. Having no DoF is no excuse. If Emery is serious about performing within a 2 year contract, he needs to roll up his sleeves and identify reasonable targets. The only danger is that in the absence of a DoF, these men might make sub-optimal player decisions that optimise for Emery versus the team's longterm sustainability. We've been here before in the last 5 years.
[font=Source Sans Pro]I cannot rate Emery as high as a B.[/font]
[font=Source Sans Pro]Not managing to improve the defence from Wenger, not working out how to fix the attack and making Xhaka the lynchpin of his team earns him a C, at best, from me and that's for preparing the team well for the big matches but ultimately failing in the most important and costliest one which has set us back 5 years if we are lucky.[/font]
Five year setback, couldn't get any more dramatic?
Liverpool finished 8th three years ago with a squad full of stars like Benteke Carroll Joe Allen or Moreno.
In La Liga Villarreal were relegated six years ago, came back immediately and got back into Europa and CL in the last few years. Obviously different leagues and all and even with our piece of shit owner theres no way we should spend five years in the wilderness if we can get the Mislintat replacement right.
jones wrote:Five year setback, couldn't get any more dramatic?
Liverpool finished 8th three years ago with a squad full of stars like Benteke Carroll Joe Allen or Moreno.
In La Liga Villarreal were relegated six years ago, came back immediately and got back into Europa and CL in the last few years. Obviously different leagues and all and even with our piece of shit owner theres no way we should spend five years in the wilderness if we can get the Mislintat replacement right.
Get Liverpool out of your head.
They have owners willing to dip into their pockets plus they hit the jackpot twice with Suarez and Coutinho.
They also have Klopp who made the right decisions.
We have financially doped clubs ahead of us plus another behind us and a dysfunctional overpaid squad with contracts running to June 2023.
Any serious investment will take place after then and even then it will be a tough ask to compete for the title.
We could fluke the CL but chances of that are almost as low.
I would gladly love it if you could convince me i'm wrong as the last guy i can see us linked with isn't getting us to the promised land.
http://onemoreinthetolly.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=4162
e: just youtubed him but couldn't get past 2 minutes of averageness
There are two examples in my post. I only named Liverpool anyway because how infatuated everyone seems to be with them. Villarreal have no financial backing and fought themselves back into Europe from the second tier in Spain.
Another example would be Frankfurt who have no money to speak of either. Three years ago they played the relegation play off and by a hairs breadth avoided going down. After hiring Kovac they finished safely mid table and got to the domestic cup final with a budget of 2.3m EUR - half the squad was loans or players who came for free, most of the promising loans didn't even have buying clauses. Next season they finished 8th barely outside the European spots but beat Bayern in the final, again with mostly cheap buys and a couple talents
This season they finished 7th and would have probably gotten to 4th even if it weren't for the extra games in Europe where they lost on pens to Chelsea after beating Marseille Lazio Shakhtar Inter and Benfica on the way. The stars of the team are Rebic bought for 2m, Jovic for a 2y loan + option for 6m, Haller 7m, da Costa for 800k, Kostic for 5m, Ndicka for 6m, Hinteregger Rode and Trapp on loan. All of them bought in the last three years with good scouting and little money, all of them worth multiple times what was paid for them. Jovic alone will most likely fetch 60m+.
Definitely possible to "beat the market" in a lot less than five years however you don't do it by talking about it but by hiring people with a football background and understanding.
FSG provided an initial war chest of 100-150m which Dalglish and Commoli then disagreed as to how to spend and they wasted it.
Since then the LFC supporters at work have complained about FSG not providing funds every summer, to the point they have accused FSG of syphoning funds to rebuild their NBL team. The difference since then has been that FSG have allowed LFC to spend their revenues on the team, and to fund the stadium development separately. Even then this was heavily criticised as being aimed at the corporate dollar rather than to the benefit of the supporters.
Yes LFC have in some ways lucked out in being able to sell Suarez and Coutinho to be able to continue to build to improve, but if anything rather than to dismiss this IMO we should recognise their clarity of purpose. I'm hoping that the new structure will have the same clarity of purpose, and that our owners/BoD will restructure our finances to enable us to make them work for us when we need it to.
jones wrote:Liverpool finished 8th three years ago with a squad full of stars like Benteke Carroll Joe Allen or Moreno.
Wow, didn't know it was that recent. Feels like 5 years ago.
Only goes to show how well a job Klopp has done. If we can get into their position 3 years from now I will bite your hands off
jones wrote:There are two examples in my post. I only named Liverpool anyway because how infatuated everyone seems to be with them. Villarreal have no financial backing and fought themselves back into Europe from the second tier in Spain.
Another example would be Frankfurt who have no money to speak of either. Three years ago they played the relegation play off and by a hairs breadth avoided going down. After hiring Kovac they finished safely mid table and got to the domestic cup final with a budget of 2.3m EUR - half the squad was loans or players who came for free, most of the promising loans didn't even have buying clauses. Next season they finished 8th barely outside the European spots but beat Bayern in the final, again with mostly cheap buys and a couple talents
This season they finished 7th and would have probably gotten to 4th even if it weren't for the extra games in Europe where they lost on pens to Chelsea after beating Marseille Lazio Shakhtar Inter and Benfica on the way. The stars of the team are Rebic bought for 2m, Jovic for a 2y loan + option for 6m, Haller 7m, da Costa for 800k, Kostic for 5m, Ndicka for 6m, Hinteregger Rode and Trapp on loan. All of them bought in the last three years with good scouting and little money, all of them worth multiple times what was paid for them. Jovic alone will most likely fetch 60m+.
Definitely possible to "beat the market" in a lot less than five years however you don't do it by talking about it but by hiring people with a football background and understanding.
Look.
Your examples may be valid though i can't be bothered to trawl through La Liga and Bundesliga records but i'm sure, if i did, i would find many more clubs that have tried for far longer than 5 years to become contenders including teams with a lot more money than us eg manu!
e: i can't believe i'm debating the (5 yr guess) tag-along addition with the point left behind!
Youre the one who said we've been set back "five years if we're lucky". I didn't say we'd be laughing in two years time just called you out on your hyperbolic comment.
If you can't be bothered why do you post. This isn't Twitter where you throw a dumb opinion in the mix and then leave it at that, the point of a forum is exchange of words and views.
Muswell Hill Gooner wrote:[font=Source Sans Pro]I cannot rate Emery as high as a B.[/font]
[font=Source Sans Pro]Not managing to improve the defence from Wenger, not working out how to fix the attack and making Xhaka the lynchpin of his team earns him a C, at best, from me and that's for preparing the team well for the big matches but ultimately failing in the most important and costliest one which has set us back 5 years if we are lucky.[/font]
As you can see i was discussing my personal rating of Unai.
You ignored the main points and picked up the tag-along as i just said!
jones wrote:Youre the one who said we've been set back "five years if we're lucky". I didn't say we'd be laughing in two years time just called you out on your hyperbolic comment.
If you can't be bothered why do you post. This isn't Twitter where you throw a dumb opinion in the mix and then leave it at that, the point of a forum is exchange of words and views.
saved for ing purposes
The rest of your post is a pretty bland opinion that did not elicit any reaction. The five year hyperbole does, if it's just a tag along or not important why post it in the first place?
The post was in reply to Claudius long post.
No need to write a novel.
e: as for the 5 years, i've provided reasons as to why i said it.
Reasons you have tried and failed to shoot down culminating in the nonsensical reference to twitter.
And what are those reasons?
As to my novel I try and put some content into my posts. Everyone's free to do as they please but I dont see the point in being generic poster #392 who comes here just to bitch.
if anyone involved in this club is apart of some 5 year process they need to be fired now. we're not in league one trying to work our way up to champions league places. it's not that hard if you know what you're doing.
Muswell Hill Gooner wrote:jones wrote:Five year setback, couldn't get any more dramatic?
Liverpool finished 8th three years ago with a squad full of stars like Benteke Carroll Joe Allen or Moreno.
In La Liga Villarreal were relegated six years ago, came back immediately and got back into Europa and CL in the last few years. Obviously different leagues and all and even with our piece of shit owner theres no way we should spend five years in the wilderness if we can get the Mislintat replacement right.
Get Liverpool out of your head.
They have owners willing to dip into their pockets plus they hit the jackpot twice with Suarez and Coutinho.
They also have Klopp who made the right decisions.
We have financially doped clubs ahead of us plus another behind us and a dysfunctional overpaid squad with contracts running to June 2023.
Any serious investment will take place after then and even then it will be a tough ask to compete for the title.
We could fluke the CL but chances of that are almost as low.
I would gladly love it if you could convince me i'm wrong as the last guy i can see us linked with isn't getting us to the promised land.
http://onemoreinthetolly.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=4162e: just youtubed him but couldn't get past 2 minutes of averageness
jones wrote:And what are those reasons?
As to my novel I try and put some content into my posts. Everyone's free to do as they please but I dont see the point in being generic poster #392 who comes here just to bitch.
I refer you to the post above that i made 2 hours ago and you clearly have missed or failed to comprehend.
Try reading it instead of insults over the internet.
I haven't missed that post. There's not a single reason in there why it should take five years to get anywhere. If you're genuinely referring to the contracts which are running till 2024 I've no idea what to tell you.
I'm not insulting you, I just describe what you're doing. You're the one who's starting it in every other thread with your passive aggressive garbage. People take the time to share information and you respond you cant be bothered and call it a novel, telling them what they should have in their heads or quoting stuff for loling purposes. Learn how to interact with people like a grown up.
jones wrote:I haven't missed that post. There's not a single reason in there why it should take five years to get anywhere. If you're genuinely referring to the contracts which are running till 2024 I've no idea what to tell you.
I'm not insulting you, I just describe what you're doing. You're the one who's starting it in every other thread with your passive aggressive garbage. People take the time to share information and you respond you cant be bothered and call it a novel, telling them what they should have in their heads or quoting stuff for loling purposes. Learn how to interact with people like a grown up.
Still lashing out when previous statement stating that i hadn't given any reason to come up with the 5 years is proven to be wrong. That's not very grown up i must add.
We do not need five years.
FFS if we had some gumption and bollocks, we would be able to dig ourselves out of this mess in a couple of years.
We need to get rid of the players and staff holding us back.
We need to identify the right players, but before that, we need to identify how we fucking want to play.
Liverpool and spurs are everyoneâs favourite examples, but those two have been laughing stocks for as long as I can remember. The difference is, Liverpool have this almost mystical aura in Europe, where miracles and comebacks happen regularly for them (to be fair they have always had balls).
They constantly bought the wrong players, wasted money and generally were hilariously inconsistent. Then Klopp and Pochettino came along.
They played in almost the same way from when they arrived to now. Everyone knew, particularly in Kloppâs case, what their favoured system was, and how they wanted their teams to play. Even when they failed, even when they lost, even when they started out inconsistently, they were trying to play to their system.
Along the way, when their systemâs came up short, weaknesses in player personal were identified, and they tried to rectify them. Sometimes they had to rectify a position more than once, even twice before they they found what they wanted. Hell, they are still looking at what they need in some positions, because both of those teams are nowhere near perfect.
Pep is an example that could be used, but everyone will throw up their arms, and discuss the money spent. The beginning is the same though, get in the club, lay down the law, lay down the system, and drill the players. Along the way, identify who is not up for it, and replace them with players who can carry out your instructions.
Unai is an extremely poor relation to those managers. I hope I am proven utterly wrong (it would not be the first time :lol
but I just canât see it.
Unai up to now, has not laid a system at Arsenal. This season is the one that he should have walked in, and said âright Iâm the manager, here is how I want to play. If you donât like it, there is the doorâ
He should have cultivated a system, and shown the players how he expects them to play, but instead we had an utter mish mash of styles, formations. Unbelievable cowardly tactics, from a man who claimed he would rather win 5-4 than 1-0..
Well so far that has proven to be a sham.
No one, including Emery, can say what his preferred formation or system is, based on last year. What he should have been doing is honing the players, especially the younger ones, on how he wants to play, instead of playing every other game, with different number in defence, midfield or attack.
I clearly mentioned "5 years to compete for the title" as i don't see us stopping the rot, replacing the duds and building a team to challenge the likes of Man City and Liverpool in less time.
By some miracle, making himself even 50% worthy of the mantle he has taken.
Whether that's stylistically or by racking trophies doesn't matter.
Terrible manager.
@[deleted]!
I donât think itâs fair to say Unai has no system. When he came in, we were not playing out the back or down the wings. Thatâs a system. We literally cannot play through the middle because we lack the quality of player to hold and control things in the center of the park.
We are at the stage where as you have said âweaknesses in player personnel were identifiedâ. Now we have to see if we have the structure and funds in place to rectify perceived weaknesses. If not, then I can only see us making slight improvements (tactically speaking) on our performances this season. Keep in mind that weâve also lost or are losing both Ozil and Ramsey - basically our only two capable midfielders. Right now itâs on senior management to walk the walk. Next season is another season of transition as I see it.
flobaba wrote:When he came in, we were not playing out the back or down the wings.
That's literally the only thing our defenders have been able to do well in the last few years. And "playing down the wings" is not a system.
I don't think our defenders are good at playing out the back at all.
