Top 4 has to be the minimum target.

Bar something extraordinary I don't think we should extend with him regardless of whether we make top 4, win Europa League, etc. Those are achievable goals for any good manager. Wenger at this absolute worst in his 22 year tenure almost knocked out last year's EL winners in the semi, and we didn't face anyone remotely as good as Atletico this year. We'll be thereabouts next year too regardless of who's in charge.

We need bigger ideas about how we want to play football and we need to value creative traits much more than we currently do. I worry a lot that we're just going to keep assembling a functional but technically deficient squad without any guiding vision that emphasises good, entertaining football.

Champions League qualification

if he gets top 4 AND displays a strong vision of where our football going then is keep him. If we broadly play the same as this season but still eke out 4th, I'd strongly consider moving him on

Klaus wrote:

Bar something extraordinary I don't think we should extend with him regardless of whether we make top 4, win Europa League, etc. Those are achievable goals for any good manager. Wenger at this absolute worst in his 22 year tenure almost knocked out last year's EL winners in the semi, and we didn't face anyone remotely as good as Atletico this year. We'll be thereabouts next year too regardless of who's in charge.

We need bigger ideas about how we want to play football and we need to value creative traits much more than we currently do. I worry a lot that we're just going to keep assembling a functional but technically deficient squad without any guiding vision that emphasises good, entertaining football.

I think I’m in this boat for now as well.

Our recruiting strategy going forward has to reflect the type of team we want to be, and the sort of football we are looking to play though.

Win the PL.

He’s been here a year and his style of play is to play with 3 CB’s and have our LWB be our main attacking threat.

He’s a pathetic coach.

1. He has to push the club to gut the squad.

2. He has to sign 4 or 5 very good players.

3. He has to integrate those players into a functioning system that produces consistent results and attractive, attacking football.

Blimey, is it only a 2yr deal?

I’m with Klaus, I just want to see clear progress on the pitch, by the end of next season I want to know that we’re building towards something, I want to be able to see what the big picture is going to end up looking like. If we do that, the results will come regardless.

I also want to see him being much, much bolder and ruthless and less pragmatic.

The minimum should be to achieve the aims & goals that he was hired to achieve.
If that was to regain CL this season then he should go now.
Even if it was a 2 year plan there should be measurable KPIs & KERs to ensure we are on the right track towards those aims and objectives.

goon wrote:

Blimey, is it only a 2yr deal?

I’m with Klaus, I just want to see clear progress on the pitch, by the end of next season I want to know that we’re building towards something, I want to be able to see what the big picture is going to end up looking like. If we do that, the results will come regardless.

I also want to see him being much, much bolder and ruthless and less pragmatic.

I want to see him hurl himself into the River Thames while screaming "Arsene Wenger is my daddy" in Spanglish.
Edit: Live on ArsenalFanTV

Who cares about results or style of play, I just want to see Diaby KungFu banned when next season starts. What is this place, the Arsenal Mania lobby?

Next season we ought to qualify for the CL if he wants to keep his job. 

There are fringe scenarios, of course, where he might earn another year if we drastically improve from this season and get, say, 80+ points but fail to qualify 'cause it's a freak season.

If it were a repeat of this season we would probably be better off starting anew.

Attacking football, and youth integration.

This season has been a total waste of everyone’s time

The sad part is, guaranteed next season we will be having this discussion again instead of being proactive and getting rid of him.

This season was always going to be the start of our transformation, so I didn't have any expectations beyond improving our League position. He was brought in to get us back into the top four within two years - that has always been the primary objective. If he achieves that next year, I'd give him an extension. It's that simple for me.

People will understandably talk about aesthetics, an identity (etc.)...but for me, that's a luxury at this point in time. Let's get us back where we need to be to generate significant £ in order to build towards a title charge first.

Get 4th, concede less, win away more, sell or at least drop all the useless hasbeens.

I'm surprised how high you guys are setting the bar.
If we had managed to get CL football, i would've had more hope.
The rebuilding process still has to go through the disassembly (getting rid of high earners) stage so we may end up a couple of steps back before we move forward. That will only happen after we get rid of the poor performing high earners Ozil/Mkhi/Mustafi (June, 2021) and Xhaka (June, 2023).

I find myself agreeing with the below article
[size=x-small]" ... , that building project, will feel as far away as ever in the wake of this shattering defeat. Chelsea were supposed to be the crisis club, the ones going into this final amid uncertainty. But they still shrugged it all off to win. Arsenal could not take advantage. And now they are condemned to starting next season from a position of huge disadvantage."[/size]
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/11731272/arsenal8217s-europa-league-final-woe-undermines-unai-emerys-rebuild?

To me he has failed this season. Utterly failed. Very little positives to find.

Even if he finished top 4 next season I'm not convinced by him. It would take something like winning like 2 of the cups and finishing 3rd for me to have hope about Emery on the long run.

Have to see what we do in the transfer market.

If we are stuck with a shit squad, then even if we sack him and get someone else in, we will still have a shit squad.

I think as a club, it is absolutely vital that we get this summer right and secure Champions League football, otherwise we will be in trouble.

United are going to waste another year on Solskjaer, while Chelsea will lose Hazard and suffer a transfer ban.

If we miss out again, I fear we'll be locked out of the top 4.

Shady wrote:

I think as a club, it is absolutely vital that we get this summer right and secure Champions League football, otherwise we will be in trouble.

United are going to waste another year on Solskjaer, while Chelsea will lose Hazard and suffer a transfer ban.

If we miss out again, I fear we'll be locked out of the top 4.

3 years sounds like a lockout. We are the best of the also-rand
We actually need to do something big this summer to convince fans and recruits. More of the same will yield.. more of the same

Emery's job is safe now and i believe he will get the extension as Sanllehi, the guy who will make the decision, is in his corner.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/11731072/unai-emery-some-arsenal-players-must-leave-after-europa-league-loss

Pathetic article.

He should resign , pathetic management.

I tend to think we shouldn't extend regardless, but certainly think he should get another season. Target is entirely contingent on the window.

He should get another season with a squad of his own making. His goal should be serious competition for Top 4, where even if we don't make it it's not because we weren't competitive. This season, we were only one point away but deserved to be 6-7 behind.

I suspect the best Emery can hope to achieve is to make us more competitive, if not in terms of results then more so in terms of performance and effort. The obvious 'target' is our fragile mentality and Away form. However to do this we will need to do a couple of things to take place, the first of which is to replace half the match day squad with players better suited to his game plan, and the second is to bring some pride back to representing the club.

I'm prepared to wait for aesthetics and/or success as IMO the lack of 'heart' is our single biggest issue.

Just a thought as to Emery & the requirements.

I'm probably over thinking things but the more I think about our financials the more I think that Emery's appointment was with this off the field transition/rebuild in mind as much as the on field transition. Not so much as being able to rebuild a squad based upon younger players, but more so because he is a Europa specialist. I suspect that our strategy during this transition/rebuild is that whilst the PL remains the ultimate measure as a football club, the Europa is perhaps of primary importance in terms of regaining top4.

There have been suggestions that Emery prioritised the Europa over the PL in the run home and effectively gambled on our being able to accumulate the points but underestimated our propensity to collapse. I suspect that there will be frank discussions held and the message being that a repeat will see next season being his last, and that in a similar position the priority will be the bird in hand as opposed to trying to both have our cake and eat it too.

As such IMO Emery's objective is not to rebuild the team but to regain CL, and his ongoing employment beyond a 2nd season will depend upon this. I'm wondering if they are not as yet willing to gut the squad as opposed to still trying to tweak it in order to try to still get the maximum out of our current resources without needing to spend to replace/rebuild, and that the 'real' action will take place after we regain CL status.

That's not how it works. To regain CL status you have to invest in the squad with quality players and have good management. You can't hope for the best with the same mediocre players and expect to make it. Wenger always gambled and lost , Emery wasted our best chance to secure CL by league position with dumb decisions that even a small time Sunday league manager would have gotten right.

GooneriC wrote:

That's not how it works. To regain CL status you have to invest in the squad with quality players and have good management. You can't hope for the best with the same mediocre players and expect to make it. Wenger always gambled and lost , Emery wasted our best chance to secure CL by league position  with dumb decisions that even a small time Sunday league manager would have gotten right.

MU proved that it can be done & then went on to finish 2nd in the PL the following season.

manu proved nothing.
They scraped through the round of 16, were almost knocked out in the quarters and hung on in the semi by the odd goal so it's fair to say they gambled and won.

Bold Tone wrote:

manu proved nothing.
They scraped through the round of 16, were almost knocked out in the quarters and hung on in the semi by the odd goal so it's fair to say they gambled and won.

IIRC Morinho said he didn't prioritise the Europa until the late stages.
Regardless of this they won the Europa and regained CL despite finishing outside the top4 = mission accomplished.

How much later than the semi's can you get?
Anyway fuck em and let's get back to Emery.
As of now, i cannot see us getting anyone better but that doesn't mean he should be immune from fair criticism.
http://7amkickoff.com/index.php/2019/06/01/how-can-anyone-be-emery-out-after-just-one-season/

He needs to begin to address the major failings in the squad and getting rid of the guys who are nowhere near good enough of which we have worryingly a lot. Start to rebuild the squad and have the team back in the top 4. If we are in a similar place next season then he will be culpable.

Also call the board out if they are proving to be an obstruction otherwise I'd find him as to blame as them if he stays silent.

Emery performed about as well we predicted at the beginning of the season. With 17 votes cast, the average position was 4,1. with 4 voting 3rd, 5 voting 4th, 4 voting 5th, and 3 voting 6th. Clearly there was some spread and uncertainty there about both our team and our rivals.

My assessment of Emery's overall season is a B-. I think he did quite well. Here are the highlights

• He was competitive in several big 6 games, beating Chelsea and coaching the game of the season versus Spurs
• He managed an incredible 22 game unbeaten run that resurrected us in the fall
• Showed great tactical dexterity between and within games
• Pushed forward and resurrected players like Lacazette, Bellerin, Holding, AMN, Guendouzi

Lowlights

• Struggled to balance Europa League line-up and League line-up in the final weeks, ultimately costing us an easy 4th place finish. Cost us 30m+ in transfer fees in the process and a lot of pride on all sides
• Unable to get his head around the defence. 50+ goals in the league is unacceptable unless you have Championship ambitions
• Might seem counter to everything else, but given that I was never really interested in the Top 4 this season anyway, I am a bit annoyed that he gave up on his project when the going got tough in January and reinstated Oil and co in the line-up as permanent fixtures. It got us wins in the short run, but I don't think it serves the longterm squad building aspirations. I would rather we had died building something than lived with Ozil sauntering around

Context

• As per the Raul interview, he was obviously dealing with the intrigue of the Ramsey contract situation and that surely played into Ramsey's squad situation. I will not lay blame at Emery for Ramsey's squad role this season. It seems there was a larger play
• He is still playing with a team of misfits. That said, it is for him to push Raul to sort it out now. Having no DoF is no excuse. If Emery is serious about performing within a 2 year contract, he needs to roll up his sleeves and identify reasonable targets. The only danger is that in the absence of a DoF, these men might make sub-optimal player decisions that optimise for Emery versus the team's longterm sustainability. We've been here before in the last 5 years.

We've been told that the summer transfers were discussed as early as Oct last year so the DoF is essentially irrelevant this summer.
The point missed in the context IMO was the significance of the season ending injuries, and the change of shape the necessitated to return of the players previously on the outer, and even more so when Rambo was ruled out as we lost his non-stop work rate as well as his big match performances.

That said I agree that Emery and the new structure should not be immune from criticism, however that criticism and the decisions made this summer should be made in relation to the original intent and objectives behind Emery's signing. To that extent I think they are thinking along the lines of a 2 year plan to regain CL either by PL top4 or more likely via Europa (given the cluster f*ck our finances are in), after which if that has not been achieved then the squad will be gutted and we move on to plan B and a longer time frame (at which point I do not think the club will extend Emery beyond the initial 2 season deal).

At this point whilst we are still on Plan A I do not think the quality / aesthetics of the performance is important as the aim is to regain CL - nothing more and by which ever means we can. I also think that our top4 challenge was somewhat unexpected and actually worked against us as it meant we could not focus on one or the other. By this I mean that the reality is that the squad is not top4 quality as every pundit said throughout the season - if anything the top4 challenge has also worked against Emery because of the way we fell apart in the run home. Even so IMO the collapse at the end of the season was little different to our previous annual collapses during the 3 week window in Feb-Mar each season under AW, including the relegation form shown after the CCup Final loss to Brum.

Only once we have regained CL do I think that the performance becomes an issue as a big part of the success of plan A relies upon doing so with much of our current resources. However if we need to go to plan B next season then the performance needs to become far more important as we transition the squad, and I suspect Emery's pragmatism will not provide the long term product we want to become identified as.

Claudius wrote:

Emery performed about as well we predicted at the beginning of the season. With 17 votes cast, the average position was 4,1. with 4 voting 3rd, 5 voting 4th, 4 voting 5th, and 3 voting 6th. Clearly there was some spread and uncertainty there about both our team and our rivals.

My assessment of Emery's overall season is a B-. I think he did quite well. Here are the highlights

• He was competitive in several big 6 games, beating Chelsea and coaching the game of the season versus Spurs
• He managed an incredible 22 game unbeaten run that resurrected us in the fall
• Showed great tactical dexterity between and within games
• Pushed forward and resurrected players like Lacazette, Bellerin, Holding, AMN, Guendouzi

Lowlights

• Struggled to balance Europa League line-up and League line-up in the final weeks, ultimately costing us an easy 4th place finish. Cost us 30m+ in transfer fees in the process and a lot of pride on all sides
• Unable to get his head around the defence. 50+ goals in the league is unacceptable unless you have Championship ambitions
• Might seem counter to everything else, but given that I was never really interested in the Top 4 this season anyway, I am a bit annoyed that he gave up on his project when the going got tough in January and reinstated Oil and co in the line-up as permanent fixtures. It got us wins in the short run, but I don't think it serves the longterm squad building aspirations. I would rather we had died building something than lived with Ozil sauntering around

Context

• As per the Raul interview, he was obviously dealing with the intrigue of the Ramsey contract situation and that surely played into Ramsey's squad situation. I will not lay blame at Emery for Ramsey's squad role this season. It seems there was a larger play
• He is still playing with a team of misfits. That said, it is for him to push Raul to sort it out now. Having no DoF is no excuse. If Emery is serious about performing within a 2 year contract, he needs to roll up his sleeves and identify reasonable targets. The only danger is that in the absence of a DoF, these men might make sub-optimal player decisions that optimise for Emery versus the team's longterm sustainability. We've been here before in the last 5 years.

[font=Source Sans Pro]I cannot rate Emery as high as a B.[/font]

[font=Source Sans Pro]Not managing to improve the defence from Wenger, not working out how to fix the attack and making Xhaka the lynchpin of his team earns him a C, at best, from me and that's for preparing the team well for the big matches but ultimately failing in the most important and costliest one which has set us back 5 years if we are lucky.[/font]

Five year setback, couldn't get any more dramatic?

Liverpool finished 8th three years ago with a squad full of stars like Benteke Carroll Joe Allen or Moreno.

In La Liga Villarreal were relegated six years ago, came back immediately and got back into Europa and CL in the last few years. Obviously different leagues and all and even with our piece of shit owner theres no way we should spend five years in the wilderness if we can get the Mislintat replacement right.

jones wrote:

Five year setback, couldn't get any more dramatic?

Liverpool finished 8th three years ago with a squad full of stars like Benteke Carroll Joe Allen or Moreno.

In La Liga Villarreal were relegated six years ago, came back immediately and got back into Europa and CL in the last few years. Obviously different leagues and all and even with our piece of shit owner theres no way we should spend five years in the wilderness if we can get the Mislintat replacement right.

Get Liverpool out of your head.

They have owners willing to dip into their pockets plus they hit the jackpot twice with Suarez and Coutinho.
They also have Klopp who made the right decisions.
We have financially doped clubs ahead of us plus another behind us and a dysfunctional overpaid squad with contracts running to June 2023.
Any serious investment will take place after then and even then it will be a tough ask to compete for the title.
We could fluke the CL but chances of that are almost as low.
I would gladly love it if you could convince me i'm wrong as the last guy i can see us linked with isn't getting us to the promised land.
http://onemoreinthetolly.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=4162

e: just youtubed him but couldn't get past 2 minutes of averageness