Alexis Claude-Maurice: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Alexis Claude-Maurice

Klaus

It probably contributes, but Chelsea had plenty of opportunities to give those guys a fair crack. It's not like Willian is a brilliant footballer, and he prevented Salah from even getting a look-in. Same with Mikel and an endstage Cesc who made sure De Bruyne didn't even get into the matchday squads. People pretend that you can't 'kill' players and that you'll never be worse off for not putting faith in them at the right moment, but history is full of examples of the contrary. One of them just won the league for the second time in two years. Another one is playing a Champions League final while Chelsea are in the Europa League.

Coombs

Right, so let's just keep doing what we're doing then. There is no better way.

FWIW, history really is not full of examples to the contrary, not in the grander scope. It's the wrong way to operate, simple as. You buy low, sell high. You build a team that can survive the sales, and that can provide the right level of competition to push players harder. We don't need to put faith in anyone, ever. They need to earn their place by producing on the pitch.

Big Willie

And if they can't get on the pitch to prove themselves because they weren't given a chance ahead of the incumbents?

That said, I do agree that we should be getting all the bargain young talents we can get and loaning them out elsewhere if they can't get games here. Worst comes to worst we either lose the small outlay we put into them or sell them for a profit. Best case scenario they become important players for us.

Klaus

Coombs wrote:
Right, so let's just keep doing what we're doing then. There is no better way.

Yes, because everything in life only has one valid answer. Fuck moderation.

Anzac

CFC stockpiling players and having 30-40 on loan during the season has absolutely nothing to do with players development for themselves, and has everything to do with generating another revenue stream.

Stockpiling and selling players is their response to replace Abramovich's previous contributions under FFP via player trading. It's also why they were investigated by UEFA regarding their influence over a Dutch feeder club regarding player selections, and why FIFA/UEFA are looking to limit the number of players able to go on loan each season to about half a dozen per club.

They have no concerns re selling the likes of Salah or de Bruyne because they buy and sell them before they have their breakout seasons, and in most cases they more than triple their money. Granted they do not get top value on individuals but they still sell for 20-30m, and it's the volume that is more important.

Qwiss

Klaus wrote:
It probably contributes, but Chelsea had plenty of opportunities to give those guys a fair crack. It's not like Willian is a brilliant footballer, and he prevented Salah from even getting a look-in. Same with Mikel and an endstage Cesc who made sure De Bruyne didn't even get into the matchday squads. People pretend that you can't 'kill' players and that you'll never be worse off for not putting faith in them at the right moment, but history is full of examples of the contrary. One of them just won the league for the second time in two years. Another one is playing a Champions League final while Chelsea are in the Europa League.

Of course they had opportunities to play them, however that doesn't really support the idea that other clubs like ourselves shouldn't load up on young talent. Chelsea gave pretty much none of their youth a chance, we would be loading up on them and then giving them a chance. If anything the amount of talent Chelsea had at that point shows a club that almost had it right but screwed up the final step.

Klaus

We should definitely load up on talent. I just think that, if we do, we need to be ready to follow through on the commitment when those players come knocking at the door.

Anzac

Qwiss! wrote:
Klaus wrote:
It probably contributes, but Chelsea had plenty of opportunities to give those guys a fair crack. It's not like Willian is a brilliant footballer, and he prevented Salah from even getting a look-in. Same with Mikel and an endstage Cesc who made sure De Bruyne didn't even get into the matchday squads. People pretend that you can't 'kill' players and that you'll never be worse off for not putting faith in them at the right moment, but history is full of examples of the contrary. One of them just won the league for the second time in two years. Another one is playing a Champions League final while Chelsea are in the Europa League.

Of course they had opportunities to play them, however that doesn't really support the idea that other clubs like ourselves shouldn't load up on young talent. Chelsea gave pretty much none of their youth a chance, we would be loading up on them and then giving them a chance. If anything the amount of talent Chelsea had at that point shows a club that almost had it right but screwed up the final step.

More likely that they have/had little or no interest in actually developing players themselves or even for themselves = there is a good reason why most of their loan players go overseas, and also why the domestic players go on loan to the likes of Villa & Co = they're in the shop windows that gives them the greatest value in the market.

Everything about both CFC and MC is about success in the current season - not next season or thereafter, and if they need a player they will just buy what they need now again, and use the money generated by the player trading to do so. They are not interested in potential ability as it does not translate to success today - if a player is not ready to contribute on merit they don't get near the starting XI.

That said I actually agree that players should be given PL game time based on merit and not so as to develop them for the future. We used to be like that before 08/09.

Anzac

Klaus wrote:
We should definitely load up on talent. I just think that, if we do, we need to be ready to follow through on the commitment when those players come knocking at the door.

But only if they are genuinely good enough to claim a position in the Senior squad on merit, let alone the match day squad or starting XI.

Klaus

Yes Anzac, I believe that was heavily implied throughout this conversation.

Qwiss

Klaus wrote:
We should definitely load up on talent. I just think that, if we do, we need to be ready to follow through on the commitment when those players come knocking at the door.

Absolutely. Its also how you keep enticing the best young players. Show them that Arsenal is once again a club where they will get a chance to shine.

Gunner89

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2019/lorient-reject-second-offer-from-arsenal-for-alexis-claude-maurice/

lorddulaarsenal

This kid, Saliba and Tierney are the three linked players I want

Claudius

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
This kid, Saliba and Tierney are the three linked players I want

Would be a good haul, Dules. I’ve heard really good things from quants about the first two, and they all look good on video

Segway

For 20 million euros he better be the real deal.

Ray

Could be a Dembele-esque transfer.

Gazza M

20m is a high price for a guy that's only played ligue 2 football. Hopefully we're getting one of guys that would've otherwise turned into the next 60m+ rated ligue 1 star. Its a good sign that lyon have been trying buy him on the cheap as well. They have a nose for developing talent

lorddulaarsenal

He looks so light on his feet. Can take people on and has a very good finish on him

lorddulaarsenal

Superb player

Gazza M

Reminds me of ben arfa in the sense he doesn't look like a pure winger. Bit of a knack for cutting in and creating through the middle. Tbh we need wide players that do that, as there has been a yawning creative gap between our midfield and strikers that has left them isolated for much of the season

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