We are so short of quality nowadays, nobody in the right frame of mind would reject such a class midfielder like Rabiot at Arsenal

I think the points that were raised are valid. Who wants a player who has a reputation of being dressing room poison? Especially when his skillset isn't very complimentary to the players we already have? Everyone recognises the value in a free transfer of a good player, but football is more complicated than that.

Klaus wrote:

I think the points that were raised are valid. Who wants a player who has a reputation of being dressing room poison? Especially when his skillset isn't very complimentary to the players we already have? Everyone recognises the value in a free transfer of a good player, but football is more complicated than that.

We're ass. I don't think it's much more complicated than that. And I say that as someone who is (relatively speaking) not that high on Rabiot's football talents.

If he was that bad in the dressing room and didn't have the right attitude would Emery really want him?

I haven't seen enough of him to tell but that's a great point, Emery will know if hes worth the trouble. I remember Liam brady mentioned on TV that their was a player good enough for Arsenal but he reckoned this player wasn't worth the trouble, he'd a very difficult personality. Brady advised wenger not to sign him and Wenger just said that all the best ones are very difficult and went ahead with it.

There's a difference between being difficult and being a dickhead. Rabiot refused to be called to the reserve of the national team before the WC 2018 because he thought he deserved to be in the team. What do you think will his team mates (especially the CMs) think of that behaviour?

And that's leaving aside his numerous career bitch moves like fucking PSG over by going back on his word to extend, his refusal to play in the cold in Bulgaria etc

jones wrote:

There's a difference between being difficult and being a dickhead. Rabiot refused to be called to the reserve of the national team before the WC 2018 because he thought he deserved to be in the team. What do you think will his team mates (especially the CMs) think of that behaviour?

And that's leaving aside his numerous career bitch moves like fucking PSG over by going back on his word to extend, his refusal to play in the cold in Bulgaria etc

He comes with issues but none of these seem to be stopping him preform on the pitch. DB10 wouldn't fly that's a major issue. I cant imagine many players with less than his increadible talent refusing to do that consistently. There must be tons of players who hate flying and just get on with it. the guys at the top are gonna demand to be spoiled more.

That looks like a quickly constructed post on your mobile while driving speedy.
What does db10s phobia of flying have to do with rabiot's dickishness?

arsedoc md wrote:

That looks like a quickly constructed post on your mobile while driving speedy.

sounds oddly specific

Well for me anyway it's about big players having massive egos and doing what suits them. If stoke were in the europa league and a shit defender doesn't want ot fly he's going to be made get on with it, because hes replacebale. He has little/no choice. Then on the other hand someone whos mega talented is not as easily replaced they know that so they're gonna be bigger Divas (on average and harder work). That comes out in things like refusing to fly or refusing to be on a reserve list. Or refusing to play for the reserves when coming back after injury.

jones wrote:

arsedoc md wrote:

That looks like a quickly constructed post on your mobile while driving speedy.

sounds oddly specific

Yea arsedoc, how have you only picked that up now. My posts have read liek that since day one.

Yeah except Bergkamp wasn't being a diva he genuinely suffers from aviophobia.

Also I meant more his description was oddly specific ie arsedoc himself might be occasionally posting while driving.

Rates of aviophobia vary from report to report about 10% seems about the averge reported. So thats about 2 players in every squad and at least one manager or coach. Why arent all these players missing games? It's because they're getting on with it because they have to.

Don't do it kids. It's not about dangerous driving. See the difference in that one post from usual speedy posts.

And yes,jones.

speedy wrote:

Rates of aviophobia vary from report to report about 10% seems about the averge reported. So thats about 2 players in every squad and at least one manager or coach. Why arent all these players missing games? It's because they're getting on with it because they have to.

Wow, this is a new perspective on this.  I remember reading that they tried all kinds of things for bergy and nothing worked.  It was legit phobia is what I remember about him.  Have to check again then. 

But even with that logic,  eventually we lost out on a player on away games.  So,  would we be able to afford a problematic character? 

Also those stats usually include the mild cases too. So the 10% could be managed with the lemon slices or scopolamine patches while others are extreme.

What I'm getting at is what Wenger said to Brady. Every top player is problematic (As mentioned above). Vieira kicked for a transfer every summer, Henry scouled at the younger players, Bergy refused to fly. Campbell headed home at half time in a game. Messi seems like a nightmare he says who he wants an doesnt want to play with. From chatting to people in the game i knw scholes wouldnt eat after games. even though theres an opertunity after you train for your absorb nutrients like a sponge to recover/refuel much quicker he just wounldn't do it. If hes an average player you can make him, but if he's Scoles he's going to do what he wants he knows he can play for any team.

Raboit if he's amazying is probably going to have an Ego to match that so yes he'll be difficult. But if we have high ambitions I don't think we can rule out players that are divas/ problematic. You have to weight up how problematic they are and make the decision based on that. Emerys knows if this guy is worth it or not.

arsedoc md wrote:

Also those stats usually include the mild cases too.  So the 10% could be managed with the lemon slices or scopolamine patches while others are extreme.

Mild cases seems to vary 25-40% of the pop. (from a quick google search, that why i used the lower end of the figures.

Rabiot is nowhere near any of those guys levels.

Jed wrote:

Rabiot is nowhere near any of those guys levels.

Im just using our previous players as examples. Apparently Hleb didnt train hard and Leahman went sick at him all the time in training, if you wanted  an example of a player with an ego that's talented but not as good as those guys. Helb is a decent one.

Qwiss! wrote:

Gazza M wrote:

why not? without ramsey or ozil in there, the midfield is very low on creativity. i think we badly need a quality string-pulling midfielder. not saying rabiot is the answer, but we need someone a bit more creative and mobile in there

Ozil and Ramsey aren't centre mids in the way Rabiot is. He wouldn't be replacing them he'd be going into Xhakas spot. Sure we could upgrade on Xhaka and it'd be nice but we have so many other areas in more urgent need of fixing.

Qwiss, the way I see it is this. Rabiot is probably as good as Xhaka. We can bring him in for free and shake Xhaka, immediately raising 30-40m pounds. 
That Xhaka money then helps us in the other areas where we need help including 
wide forward
centre back
back-up GK
back-up RB
back-up LB

There is so much work to be done, that I think we will need to play a little bit of football manager. And for me, that means selling Xhaka, Mustafi and Chambers to get the job done properly. They're the only expendable value left. 

speedy wrote:

What I'm getting at is what Wenger said to Brady. Every top player is problematic (As mentioned above). Vieira kicked for a transfer every summer, Henry scouled at the younger players, Bergy refused to fly. Campbell headed home at half time in a game. Messi seems like a nightmare he says who he wants an doesnt want to play with. From chatting to people in the game i knw scholes wouldnt eat after games. even though theres an opertunity after you train for your absorb nutrients like a sponge to recover/refuel much quicker he just wounldn't do it. If hes an average player you can make him, but if he's Scoles he's going to do what he wants he knows he can play for any team.

Raboit if he's amazying is probably going to have an Ego to match that so yes he'll be difficult. But if we have high ambitions I don't think we can rule out players that are divas/ problematic. You have to weight up how problematic they are and make the decision based on that. Emerys knows if this guy is worth it or not.

None of those examples seem similar to bergkamp which is a genuine psychiatric issue. (i won't say nothing about it until i'm...parked) But I understand the point with the other examples now. I mean, when you start winning, all such issues seem endearing and are easily masked into the background. That's the risk or chance with Rabiot I suppose. Is he that good that he'll make such a difference in a perennially unbalanced team(either due to injuries or shortage of funds)
I know jones will come out with some fine print details story but auba had some problematic stories too before coming here. No peep since.

Qwiss! wrote:

Gazza M wrote:

why not? without ramsey or ozil in there, the midfield is very low on creativity. i think we badly need a quality string-pulling midfielder. not saying rabiot is the answer, but we need someone a bit more creative and mobile in there

Ozil and Ramsey aren't centre mids in the way Rabiot is. He wouldn't be replacing them he'd be going into Xhakas spot. Sure we could upgrade on Xhaka and it'd be nice but we have so many other areas in more urgent need of fixing.

Ultimately we'd be getting a £40-50m asset for a free though and that's something that you have to at least consider when you're a club in our position. We could sell Xhaka and spend that money on those areas that do need more attention. I'm not even that big a fan of Rabiot.

I had a friend years back who developed an extreme fear of flying after being on a plane that nearly crashed during take off. Before that he was an avid flyer basically every day off work he got he was on a plane somewhere, that ended immediately after that experience.

Problem was he had a job that required him to meet clients all over Europe. His solution was to fly always the day before he was due to be somewhere so he could get absolutely shitfaced before take off, he'd do bumps of ketamine just before airport control and would spent the whole flight ordering whiskey.

Anyway point being I see why Bergkamp would simply refuse, not a solution for everyone and phobias can be crippling for some.

goon wrote:

Qwiss! wrote:

Ozil and Ramsey aren't centre mids in the way Rabiot is. He wouldn't be replacing them he'd be going into Xhakas spot. Sure we could upgrade on Xhaka and it'd be nice but we have so many other areas in more urgent need of fixing.

Ultimately we'd be getting a £40-50m asset for a free though and that's something that you have to at least consider when you're a club in our position. We could sell Xhaka and spend that money on those areas that do need more attention. I'm not even that big a fan of Rabiot.

He wouldn't be for free though. Free transfers are a lie, you still have to pay massive wages and signing on fees.

But yeah in a fantasy world where we could get Rabiot without breaking the bank and allowing us to sell Xhaka then yeah sure that'd be cool.

It depends on how we want to play next season. If we're playing with three midfielders and Elneny and Ramsey are leaving I wouldn't sell Xhaka even if we get a new CM.

Claudius wrote:

Qwiss! wrote:

Ozil and Ramsey aren't centre mids in the way Rabiot is. He wouldn't be replacing them he'd be going into Xhakas spot. Sure we could upgrade on Xhaka and it'd be nice but we have so many other areas in more urgent need of fixing.

Qwiss, the way I see it is this. Rabiot is probably as good as Xhaka. We can bring him in for free and shake Xhaka, immediately raising 30-40m pounds. 
That Xhaka money then helps us in the other areas where we need help including 
wide forward
centre back
back-up GK
back-up RB
back-up LB

There is so much work to be done, that I think we will need to play a little bit of football manager. And for me, that means selling Xhaka, Mustafi and Chambers to get the job done properly. They're the only expendable value left. 

The way our midfield is struggling has been a good argument to suggest that Xhaka is no longer expendable, or at least any more so than the likes of PEA or Laca.

My argument on Xhaka is thus

• Xhaka seems calmer under Emery but I think that's more a function of the more organised play than the player. His xA and xG are both down significantly as would be expected with our more conservative approach play but his key passes are up. He is still prone to a Mustafism though and I do not see the ability to take that next step and turn into a truly special player. So why invest in the guy?
• I would not sell either PEA or Laca. Goals are an incredible currency. We learned during the barren post Henry and post RVP years. Go to bed with an image of Giroud in your head. Mmmm

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that he shouldn't be sold, just that I think everyone is expendable in the right circumstances & no one should be considered as untouchable.

Was looking at the stats for CM this season, Rabiot really stands out.

We don’t like his mummy.

On a serious note, Look at Guendouzi though. In say 3 years, I bet you he’s up there with both his carrying and passing stats. He is going to be a terror of a player for opposition midfields, no question.

Ndombele stats match up with what he looks like on the field. Very cool graph, Clrnc.

Sangare and Krunic look like interesting prospects.

That graph/stat is unfortunately no good representation of reality. Hasebe for example according to this graph is one of the most progressive passing centre midfielders in Europe. Problem is hes a CM only in name any more and has played as the central defender in a back three for a couple years now, which of course changes the meaning of "forward pass" dramatically

The terminology of a central midfielder is far too diverse to be able to throw all those names in there together. Fabian, Ndombele or Veretout are all very good players but can hardly be compared, theres little point to throwing them into one graph as if they could be

Have a feeling he’ll sign for us

jones wrote:

That graph/stat is unfortunately no good representation of reality. Hasebe for example according to this graph is one of the most progressive passing centre midfielders in Europe. Problem is hes a CM only in name any more and has played as the central defender in a back three for a couple years now, which of course changes the meaning of "forward pass" dramatically

The terminology of a central midfielder is far too diverse to be able to throw all those names in there together. Fabian, Ndombele or Veretout are all very good players but can hardly be compared, theres little point to throwing them into one graph as if they could be

But this is why data alone is useless. That’s why on any team where we are building analytical models, I will always have translators and business analysts. You need to have people who actually understand the sporting or business context, which you clearly do. The raw output is interesting, but you’ll always need interpretation and interrogation as you have done. Otherwise, you’ll make massive mistakes. Your next question looking at the above is probably so what - how does this contribute to actual attacks completed. Iwobi on a bad day might make ground, but what’s the point if he runs into a defender?

Yeah agreed, you need someone who can work with the data at display, but most of all you need someone who knows what they're doing cobbling the data together in the first place. My problem with data in football is half the time it's used completely wrong just like the above graph in that apples oranges and car tyres are thrown into some fancy graphic to be compared for diameter. Looks nice but means jack shit, and that's before you even get to the deeper questions (i.e. "what's the point if he runs into a defender")

Xhaka one of the most progressive passers. This is why he is always picked despite the regular brain farts.