Adrien Rabiot: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Adrien Rabiot

Qwiss

Gazza M wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
No. I don't want any midfielders signed in the summer. Get some defenders and an exciting winger.

why not? without ramsey or ozil in there, the midfield is very low on creativity. i think we badly need a quality string-pulling midfielder. not saying rabiot is the answer, but we need someone a bit more creative and mobile in there

Ozil and Ramsey aren't centre mids in the way Rabiot is. He wouldn't be replacing them he'd be going into Xhakas spot. Sure we could upgrade on Xhaka and it'd be nice but we have so many other areas in more urgent need of fixing.

Claudius

Qwiss! wrote:
Gazza M wrote:
why not? without ramsey or ozil in there, the midfield is very low on creativity. i think we badly need a quality string-pulling midfielder. not saying rabiot is the answer, but we need someone a bit more creative and mobile in there

Ozil and Ramsey aren't centre mids in the way Rabiot is. He wouldn't be replacing them he'd be going into Xhakas spot. Sure we could upgrade on Xhaka and it'd be nice but we have so many other areas in more urgent need of fixing.

Qwiss, the way I see it is this. Rabiot is probably as good as Xhaka. We can bring him in for free and shake Xhaka, immediately raising 30-40m pounds.
That Xhaka money then helps us in the other areas where we need help including
wide forward
centre back
back-up GK
back-up RB
back-up LB

There is so much work to be done, that I think we will need to play a little bit of football manager. And for me, that means selling Xhaka, Mustafi and Chambers to get the job done properly. They're the only expendable value left.

arsedocmd

speedy wrote:
What I'm getting at is what Wenger said to Brady. Every top player is problematic (As mentioned above). Vieira kicked for a transfer every summer, Henry scouled at the younger players, Bergy refused to fly. Campbell headed home at half time in a game. Messi seems like a nightmare he says who he wants an doesnt want to play with. From chatting to people in the game i knw scholes wouldnt eat after games. even though theres an opertunity after you train for your absorb nutrients like a sponge to recover/refuel much quicker he just wounldn't do it. If hes an average player you can make him, but if he's Scoles he's going to do what he wants he knows he can play for any team.

Raboit if he's amazying is probably going to have an Ego to match that so yes he'll be difficult. But if we have high ambitions I don't think we can rule out players that are divas/ problematic. You have to weight up how problematic they are and make the decision based on that. Emerys knows if this guy is worth it or not.

None of those examples seem similar to bergkamp which is a genuine psychiatric issue. (i won't say nothing about it until i'm...parked) But I understand the point with the other examples now. I mean, when you start winning, all such issues seem endearing and are easily masked into the background. That's the risk or chance with Rabiot I suppose. Is he that good that he'll make such a difference in a perennially unbalanced team(either due to injuries or shortage of funds)
I know jones will come out with some fine print details story but auba had some problematic stories too before coming here. No peep since.

goon

Qwiss! wrote:
Gazza M wrote:
why not? without ramsey or ozil in there, the midfield is very low on creativity. i think we badly need a quality string-pulling midfielder. not saying rabiot is the answer, but we need someone a bit more creative and mobile in there

Ozil and Ramsey aren't centre mids in the way Rabiot is. He wouldn't be replacing them he'd be going into Xhakas spot. Sure we could upgrade on Xhaka and it'd be nice but we have so many other areas in more urgent need of fixing.

Ultimately we'd be getting a £40-50m asset for a free though and that's something that you have to at least consider when you're a club in our position. We could sell Xhaka and spend that money on those areas that do need more attention. I'm not even that big a fan of Rabiot.

jones

I had a friend years back who developed an extreme fear of flying after being on a plane that nearly crashed during take off. Before that he was an avid flyer basically every day off work he got he was on a plane somewhere, that ended immediately after that experience.

Problem was he had a job that required him to meet clients all over Europe. His solution was to fly always the day before he was due to be somewhere so he could get absolutely shitfaced before take off, he'd do bumps of ketamine just before airport control and would spent the whole flight ordering whiskey.

Anyway point being I see why Bergkamp would simply refuse, not a solution for everyone and phobias can be crippling for some.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Ozil and Ramsey aren't centre mids in the way Rabiot is. He wouldn't be replacing them he'd be going into Xhakas spot. Sure we could upgrade on Xhaka and it'd be nice but we have so many other areas in more urgent need of fixing.

Ultimately we'd be getting a £40-50m asset for a free though and that's something that you have to at least consider when you're a club in our position. We could sell Xhaka and spend that money on those areas that do need more attention. I'm not even that big a fan of Rabiot.

He wouldn't be for free though. Free transfers are a lie, you still have to pay massive wages and signing on fees.

But yeah in a fantasy world where we could get Rabiot without breaking the bank and allowing us to sell Xhaka then yeah sure that'd be cool.

QuincyAbeyie

It depends on how we want to play next season. If we're playing with three midfielders and Elneny and Ramsey are leaving I wouldn't sell Xhaka even if we get a new CM.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Ozil and Ramsey aren't centre mids in the way Rabiot is. He wouldn't be replacing them he'd be going into Xhakas spot. Sure we could upgrade on Xhaka and it'd be nice but we have so many other areas in more urgent need of fixing.

Qwiss, the way I see it is this. Rabiot is probably as good as Xhaka. We can bring him in for free and shake Xhaka, immediately raising 30-40m pounds.
That Xhaka money then helps us in the other areas where we need help including
wide forward
centre back
back-up GK
back-up RB
back-up LB

There is so much work to be done, that I think we will need to play a little bit of football manager. And for me, that means selling Xhaka, Mustafi and Chambers to get the job done properly. They're the only expendable value left.

The way our midfield is struggling has been a good argument to suggest that Xhaka is no longer expendable, or at least any more so than the likes of PEA or Laca.

Claudius

My argument on Xhaka is thus

Xhaka seems calmer under Emery but I think that's more a function of the more organised play than the player. His xA and xG are both down significantly as would be expected with our more conservative approach play but his key passes are up. He is still prone to a Mustafism though and I do not see the ability to take that next step and turn into a truly special player. So why invest in the guy?
I would not sell either PEA or Laca. Goals are an incredible currency. We learned during the barren post Henry and post RVP years. Go to bed with an image of Giroud in your head. Mmmm

Anzac

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that he shouldn't be sold, just that I think everyone is expendable in the right circumstances & no one should be considered as untouchable.

Clrnc

Was looking at the stats for CM this season, Rabiot really stands out.

flobaba

We don’t like his mummy.

flobaba

On a serious note, Look at Guendouzi though. In say 3 years, I bet you he’s up there with both his carrying and passing stats. He is going to be a terror of a player for opposition midfields, no question.

Claudius

Ndombele stats match up with what he looks like on the field. Very cool graph, Clrnc.

Ray

Sangare and Krunic look like interesting prospects.

jones

That graph/stat is unfortunately no good representation of reality. Hasebe for example according to this graph is one of the most progressive passing centre midfielders in Europe. Problem is hes a CM only in name any more and has played as the central defender in a back three for a couple years now, which of course changes the meaning of "forward pass" dramatically

The terminology of a central midfielder is far too diverse to be able to throw all those names in there together. Fabian, Ndombele or Veretout are all very good players but can hardly be compared, theres little point to throwing them into one graph as if they could be

lorddulaarsenal

Have a feeling he’ll sign for us

Claudius

jones wrote:
That graph/stat is unfortunately no good representation of reality. Hasebe for example according to this graph is one of the most progressive passing centre midfielders in Europe. Problem is hes a CM only in name any more and has played as the central defender in a back three for a couple years now, which of course changes the meaning of "forward pass" dramatically

The terminology of a central midfielder is far too diverse to be able to throw all those names in there together. Fabian, Ndombele or Veretout are all very good players but can hardly be compared, theres little point to throwing them into one graph as if they could be

But this is why data alone is useless. That’s why on any team where we are building analytical models, I will always have translators and business analysts. You need to have people who actually understand the sporting or business context, which you clearly do. The raw output is interesting, but you’ll always need interpretation and interrogation as you have done. Otherwise, you’ll make massive mistakes. Your next question looking at the above is probably so what - how does this contribute to actual attacks completed. Iwobi on a bad day might make ground, but what’s the point if he runs into a defender?

jones

Yeah agreed, you need someone who can work with the data at display, but most of all you need someone who knows what they're doing cobbling the data together in the first place. My problem with data in football is half the time it's used completely wrong just like the above graph in that apples oranges and car tyres are thrown into some fancy graphic to be compared for diameter. Looks nice but means jack shit, and that's before you even get to the deeper questions (i.e. "what's the point if he runs into a defender")

FEBravo

Xhaka one of the most progressive passers. This is why he is always picked despite the regular brain farts.

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