Circus circa 2020: Page 73 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Circus circa 2020

Claudius

The whole blanket corporate criticism that AOC and her people planted is misplaced. You’ll notice for example that there are no Wall Street people in the team. There are however a lot of corporate people with legal experience. And a lot of tech people who aren’t with the big 4 players. Both of those skills will be vital as Biden will have a lot of legal battles to fight (even just getting into power), and then dealing with every aspect of how technology impacts our lives (the Uber/Lyft issue that impacts 1% of the workforce, the tech monopoly issue that impacts every single industry, section 230 which could have constitutional impacts, etc). So bring in the right corporate ghouls because those corporates have even more ghouls waiting for them when the wars begin.

Qwiss

Those corporate ghouls aren't there to go to war with their mates in the companies they came from Claud, don't be ridiculous. Having Uber and Lyft people isn't going to protect drivers. California passed prop 22 and these people are in Bidens team to pass similar laws across the country.

Mirth

I suppose part of the issue is that the Democrats are indeed the preferable of the two alternatives but that's because the Republicans are batshit crazy climate change deniers. When you actually sit down and look at the policies the Democrats are largely in line with the Tories over here or most right wing parties in Europe (despite taking their social and cultural cues from Trump) and since this forum largely leans to the European left you're not going to find much sympathy for how the Democrats are likely to execute their next four years in power. A fundamental question I have is how are the policies of the last decade suppose to fix anything given they were the root cause for the rise of Trump to begin with? But that's something I'll just have to see play out.

MistaT

Claudius wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-biden-cabinet-b1721241.html

Its all so predictable.

Er... it’s just common sense at this point. You realize that both Massachusetts and Vermont have Republican Governors? Warren and Sanders have to stay in place.

A Democrat would surely win in Vermont, especially one who got Bernie's backing. So the only concern would be who the Governor would appoint interim.

Not as confident about Massachusets....which is a shame, as Warren is mighty smart and a good speaker. She would be fantastic in a cabinet.

Coombs

It's frustrating because these people really are evil as hell. They don't have our best interests in mind and they do conspire against us. It's not that the democratic party is a lesser evil, it's exactly the same evil. It's almost like sports, you support the teams arbitrarily based on where you come from or life experience, and then you act like the opposition are cheaters or in the wrong when you're fundamentally playing the same game.

Meatwad

the mass legislature won't allow baker to appoint a republican. they have a supermajority in the legislature and a history of passing laws about who can be appointed. an amendment to address this was just submitted this week and will be voted on.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/massachusetts-playbook/2020/11/10/speculation-into-bidens-cabinet-continues-zoom-sparks-battle-in-everett-major-cuts-ahead-for-mbta-490856

[size=small][font=Georgia, Times,]GOOD MORNING, MASSACHUSETTS.[/font][/size]

[size=small][font=Georgia, Times,]AMENDMENT FUELS SPECULATION ABOUT BIDEN’S CABINET — If you're tracking what President-elect Joe Biden's cabinet may look like, here's something to keep an eye on: State Rep. Mindy Domb filed an amendment to the House budget, up for debate this week, that would change the rules around Gov. Charlie Baker's power to fill any future open Senate seats.[/font][/size]
[size=small][font=Georgia, Times,]Baker could appoint anyone to the seat under existing rules, and that person would serve until the state could hold a special election. But Domb's proposal would require the governor to appoint an interim lawmaker of the same party if a member of congress from Massachusetts vacated their seat. The amendment was reported by the State House News Service.[/font][/size]
[size=small][font=Georgia, Times,]The proposal comes as Biden begins to consider his cabinet selections, and Sen. Elizabeth Warren is often the subject of speculation for a Treasury role. Democratic sources told my POLITICO colleagues Warren planned to approach Biden about the job. It's not clear whether Biden wants to appoint a progressive to the position, especially if the Senate, which approves cabinet selections, is held by Republicans next year. Domb supported Warren during the presidential primary.[/font][/size]
[size=small][font=Georgia, Times,]If Domb's amendment passes, it would clear one hurdle for a possible Warren appointment, without leaving Democrats worried about handing an open Senate seat to the Republican governor. It's not uncommon for Beacon Hill legislators to change Senate vacancy rules, lawmakers have done so twice in the last two decades. Domb's amendment was co-sponsored by state Reps. Christina Minicucci, Tram Nguyen and Mary Keefe.[/font][/size]

Claudius

Thanks for sharing Meatwad.
Warren would be a tremendous asset to the administration if they can get her there and find a good replacement for that Senate seat.
And she has a good history with Biden/Obama. After all, Obama appointed her his Assistant and Special Advisor to the Treasury Secretary on the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau where she scored big wins against the banks. And over the summer, she co-hosted Biden's biggest fundraiser (nailed about $5m that night). Again, people need to stop making up phony wars. These people have worked together successfully before.

MistaT

Thanks for sharing Meatwad.

MistaT

Coombs wrote:
It's frustrating because these people really are evil as hell. They don't have our best interests in mind and they do conspire against us. It's not that the democratic party is a lesser evil, it's exactly the same evil. It's almost like sports, you support the teams arbitrarily based on where you come from or life experience, and then you act like the opposition are cheaters or in the wrong when you're fundamentally playing the same game.

I'm not going to pretend the Democrats don't have blood on their hands or pander to corporate interests. But they're not exactly the same evil....scroll through (on the right) for a full list

House Vote for Net Neutrality 2011

For	Against
Rep	2	234
Dem	177	6

Senate Vote for Net Neutrality 2011

For	Against
Rep	0	46
Dem	52	0
Money in Elections and Voting

Campaign Finance Disclosure Requirements

For	Against
Rep	0	39
Dem	59	0

DISCLOSE Act

For	Against
Rep	0	45
Dem	53	0

Backup Paper Ballots - Voting Record

For	Against
Rep	20	170
Dem	228	0

Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act

For	Against
Rep	8	38
Dem	51	3
Sets reasonable limits on the raising and spending of money by electoral candidates to influence elections (Reverse Citizens United)

For	Against
Rep	0	42
Dem	54	0

The Economy/Jobs

Limits Interest Rates for Certain Federal Student Loans

For	Against
Rep	0	46
Dem	46	6
Student Loan Affordability Act

For	Against
Rep	0	51
Dem	45	1
Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Funding Amendment

For	Against
Rep	1	41
Dem	54	0
End the Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection

For	Against
Rep	39	1
Dem	1	54
Kill Credit Default Swap Regulations

For	Against
Rep	38	2
Dem	18	36
Revokes tax credits for businesses that move jobs overseas

For	Against
Rep	10	32
Dem	53	1
Disapproval of President's Authority to Raise the Debt Limit

For	Against
Rep	233	1
Dem	6	175
Disapproval of President's Authority to Raise the Debt Limit

For	Against
Rep	42	1
Dem	2	51
Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act

For	Against
Rep	3	173
Dem	247	4
Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act

For	Against
Rep	4	36
Dem	57	0
Dodd Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Bureau Act

For	Against
Rep	4	39
Dem	55	2
American Jobs Act of 2011 - $50 billion for infrastructure projects

For	Against
Rep	0	48
Dem	50	2
Emergency Unemployment Compensation Extension

For	Against
Rep	1	44
Dem	54	1
Reduces Funding for Food Stamps

For	Against
Rep	33	13
Dem	0	52
Minimum Wage Fairness Act

For	Against
Rep	1	41
Dem	53	1
Paycheck Fairness Act

For	Against
Rep	0	40
Dem	58	1
"War on Terror"
Time Between Troop Deployments

For	Against
Rep	6	43
Dem	50	1
Habeas Corpus for Detainees of the United States

For	Against
Rep	5	42
Dem	50	0
Habeas Review Amendment

For	Against
Rep	3	50
Dem	45	1
Prohibits Detention of U.S. Citizens Without Trial

For	Against
Rep	5	42
Dem	39	12
Authorizes Further Detention After Trial During Wartime

For	Against
Rep	38	2
Dem	9	49
Prohibits Prosecution of Enemy Combatants in Civilian Courts

For	Against
Rep	46	2
Dem	1	49
Repeal Indefinite Military Detention

For	Against
Rep	15	214
Dem	176	16
Oversight of CIA Interrogation and Detention Amendment

For	Against
Rep	1	52
Dem	45	1
Patriot Act Reauthorization

For	Against
Rep	196	31
Dem	54	122
FISA Act Reauthorization of 2008

For	Against
Rep	188	1
Dem	105	128
FISA Reauthorization of 2012

For	Against
Rep	227	7
Dem	74	111
House Vote to Close the Guantanamo Prison

For	Against
Rep	2	228
Dem	172	21
Senate Vote to Close the Guantanamo Prison

For	Against
Rep	3	32
Dem	52	3
Prohibits the Use of Funds for the Transfer or Release of Individuals Detained at Guantanamo

For	Against
Rep	44	0
Dem	9	41
Oversight of CIA Interrogation and Detention

For	Against
Rep	1	52
Dem	45	1
Civil Rights
Same Sex Marriage Resolution 2006

For	Against
Rep	6	47
Dem	42	2
Employment Non-Discrimination Act of 2013

For	Against
Rep	1	41
Dem	54	0
Exempts Religiously Affiliated Employers from the Prohibition on Employment Discrimination Based on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity

For	Against
Rep	41	3
Dem	2	52

Family Planning

Teen Pregnancy Education Amendment

For	Against
Rep	4	50
Dem	44	1

Family Planning and Teen Pregnancy Prevention

For	Against
Rep	3	51
Dem	44	1

Protect Women's Health From Corporate Interference Act The 'anti-Hobby Lobby' bill.

For	Against
Rep	3	42
Dem	53	1

Environment
Stop "the War on Coal" Act of 2012

For	Against
Rep	214	13
Dem	19	162

EPA Science Advisory Board Reform Act of 2013

For	Against
Rep	225	1
Dem	4	190

Prohibit the Social Cost of Carbon in Agency Determinations

For	Against
Rep	218	2
Dem	4	186

Meatwad

i don't have time for both sides are the same arguments. i don't even engage in that debate with anyone anymore.

jones

Both sides are human garbage, one is significantly worse than the other still. For the rest of the world the difference isn't as big though.

Coombs

Meatwad wrote:
i don't have time for both sides are the same arguments. i don't even engage in that debate with anyone anymore.

I don't have time for lesser-evil arguments, they're the fallback for the woolly-eyed and intellectually bankrupt.

Joe Biden is a racist, a liar, a misogynist, and a violent, abusive, elitist bastard. He's an opportunist, a self-serving exploiter of others' misery. The Third Way is the wrong way. It's a literal corporate conspiracy against the poor, against people of color, against women, against vulnerable people all over the world, and against every measure of common decency humans have developed over the last 10,000 years. Fuck him straight to hell.

When we make excuses for these people, we become complicit in our own oppression. I don't blame anyone for voting for him, Trump was fucking exhausting, but if we don't take him to task and force him to do what's right, it'll be for nothing.

I've got just about zero hope for that happening. Even before inauguration, all the signs point to the Dems doubling-down on the neoliberal hellscape they've crafted for us, and for the media to nod along. Whenever things go a bit sideways, they just press the reset button and start again.

Gazza M

Coombs wrote:
Meatwad wrote:
i don't have time for both sides are the same arguments. i don't even engage in that debate with anyone anymore.

I don't have time for lesser-evil arguments, they're the fallback for the woolly-eyed and intellectually bankrupt.

Joe Biden is a racist, a liar, a misogynist, and a violent, abusive, elitist bastard. He's an opportunist, a self-serving exploiter of others' misery. The Third Way is the wrong way. It's a literal corporate conspiracy against the poor, against people of color, against women, against vulnerable people all over the world, and against every measure of common decency humans have developed over the last 10,000 years. Fuck him straight to hell.

When we make excuses for these people, we become complicit in their own oppression. I don't blame anyone for voting for him, Trump was fucking exhausting, but if we don't take him to task and force him to do what's right, it'll be for nothing.

I've got just about zero hope for that happening. Even before inauguration, all the signs point to the Dems doubling-down on the neoliberal hellscape they've crafted for us, and for the media to nod along. Whenever things go a bit sideways, they just press the reset button and start again.

there's a saying that if conservatives lose the ability to take power democratically, they'll reject democracy before they reject conservatism. i don't think neoliberals are quite as bad as that, but honestly they're not far off. the splintering of the democratic party will continue, and we'll start to see the lengths centrists will go to in order to cling onto power, and i think people might be surprised by these alleged 'moderates' and their media allies

and a side note, its hilarious to see michael cohen appear to be a regular msnbc contributor now. what possible value could such an amoral huckster contribute to a discussion? it's just muckraking under the guise of insider information that liberals can chuckle at in wine caves. and msnbc wonder why there's a whole generation of people that has stopped believing mainstream media entirely

flobaba

Big deal. They regularly had Michael Avenatti (Stormy Daniels’ crooked lawyer) on as a marquee guest prior to him becoming a convicted felon.

The Democratic Party probably saw him as a viable candidate to run against Trump back then too. :-/

Claudius

Funnily enough, I think Michael Cohen is a useful voice. Obviously, you need to acknowledge that he is a criminal. But he has worked closely with Trump and understands the inner workings of Trump’s criminal empire.

Two things worth thinking about re Cohen. First, in September (I think) he said Trump would not accept the outcome of the election if he lost. This has come to pass. And it makes sense. Trump hates losing and has consistently acted and spoken in that way.

Second, Trump operated his business in a criminal fashion. He typically had ambitious men partake in criminal acts with him, and once they were implicated, they were stuck. They had to continue enabling him. I believe he has done the same thing to Republicans. He has fed on their ambitions, and they’ve turned a blind eye to his crimes with Ukraine and China and various Hatch Act violations. Now they are so far steeped in crime they are unable to rein him in. They’re all accomplices to his corruption.

jones

Trump himself said back in 2016 he wouldn't accept the election if he lost.

Claudius

That too. Also is still to accept that he lost the 2016 popular vote.

flobaba

At this stage no one needs an “insider” to predict or understand Trump’s actions and motivations. You knew he wouldn’t accept the results. You didn’t need any criminal ex employee of Trump’s to tell you this.

Cohen is highly unnecessary.

goon

Yup, I could have told you that.

Claudius

For whatever reason, Flo, Americans refuse to acknowledge that Trump is a strong man. We’ve seen many of his kind in our neighborhood so he was instantly recognizable through his words and actions.
There’s also this grand illusion that democracy will save them when these institutions are only as strong as the men and women who constitute them. Fortunately the voters and judiciary are holding firm but everything else is compromised

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