Time for the fans to stick by the manager: Page 42 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Time for the fans to stick by the manager

JazzG

Clrnc wrote:
Worse in all departments, but our star strikers constantly save our arses otherwise this season points tally would be far worse than last.

Even without the stats it's not hard to see, I honestly thought around Feb/Mar we had turned a corner but still same ol shit. Only so long people can keep blaming Wenger, Emery has inherited a flawed squad but still has had Auba available all season and added three quality squad players. Wouldn't call Leno/Sokratis/Torreira game changers but solid improvements. Defensively we look as bad if not worse than last season, we've had some great performances but on the whole have been unconvincing. Yesterday wasn't the first time against poor opposition we have looked dire.

Last season we were knocked out by Atletico in the Europa, we have not faced anyone of that quality this season. If we did we'd probably get knocked out. Even so we battered Atletico at home last season, should have won 3 or 4 nil.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Clrnc wrote:

Worse in all departments, but our star strikers constantly save our arses otherwise this season points tally would be far worse than last.

Actual goals scored and conceded is worse too, not to mention the football on show. Like I said, we have absolutely no excuses not to make the top 4 with our remaining games and how our rivals performed. The fact we got only 1 point in our last 4 matches is bloody worrying and if we lose to Valencia on thursday we will seriously need to consider

This is damning. We had a better team than last year.
There is no excuse for what we were doing on defense. Especially with his 3 at the back formations

The lack of a collective approach to everything exposes the failings within the team balance and structures.

BWoolley

Has.To.Go (Emery) The other highlight from that clip is Ozil walking around doing nothing.

Bold Tone

Highlighting a 35 sec clip out of a 90 minute game to "prove" that a player is doing nothing and said clip doesn't show said player doing nothing is poor.
Go do some more digging.
Have you not checked out the Mustafi lowlights to see the standards here?

Qwiss

Yeah but thats absolutely standard for what Ozil does during matches when he's off the ball. Even in attack lately when he makes a run and doesn't get the pass he just stands around instead of getting back into the game. He clearly doesn't give a shit any more.

BWoolley

Bold Tone wrote:
Highlighting a 35 sec clip out of a 90 minute game to "prove" that a player is doing nothing and said clip doesn't show said player doing nothing is poor.
Go do some more digging.
Have you not checked out the Mustafi lowlights to see the standards here?

The Ozil thing was an aside. Mainly meant to say that Emery has to go given how utterly inept he has allowed this team to become (or continue from last season).

Bold Tone

Qwiss! wrote:
Yeah but thats absolutely standard for what Ozil does during matches when he's off the ball. Even in attack lately when he makes a run and doesn't get the pass he just stands around instead of getting back into the game. He clearly doesn't give a shit any more.

That clip is not a good example then as, you do not want a guy who doesn't know how to tackle giving up his role as an outlet pass and running round like a headless chicken in the box as Torreira did in that clip or worse giving away a penalty like Xhaka did in that match.

Sicario

BWoolley wrote:
Bold Tone wrote:
Highlighting a 35 sec clip out of a 90 minute game to "prove" that a player is doing nothing and said clip doesn't show said player doing nothing is poor.
Go do some more digging.
Have you not checked out the Mustafi lowlights to see the standards here?

The Ozil thing was an aside. Mainly meant to say that Emery has to go given how utterly inept he has allowed this team to become (or continue from last season).

I can show you a 60 sec clip of pascal Cygan looking like paolo maldini on YouTube as well.

Qwiss

Bold Tone wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Yeah but thats absolutely standard for what Ozil does during matches when he's off the ball. Even in attack lately when he makes a run and doesn't get the pass he just stands around instead of getting back into the game. He clearly doesn't give a shit any more.

That clip is not a good example then as, you do not want a guy who doesn't know how to tackle giving up his role as an outlet pass and running round like a headless chicken in the box as Torreira did in that clip or worse giving away a penalty like Xhaka did in that match.

Well I don't want him on the pitch, or even at the club, never mind in the box.

Bold Tone

That certainly is not news to me.

Qwiss

😆

speedy

BWoolley wrote:

Has.To.Go (Emery) The other highlight from that clip is Ozil walking around doing nothing.

I think hes where he needs to be in that clip. If he chases the ball he leaves the edge of the box open for any late runners. And besides he cant win a header so hes better use where he is.

jones

Yeah no love left for Özil but if you want him to chase after the ball there you need to be watching bambini football.

Qwiss

He's not supposed to chase the ball but he should have tracked his man.

mdgoonah41

mdgoonah41 wrote:
ive been backing emery all season, and until we've fallen apart here, he looked like he deserved the credit and support. im not sure now.

if hes the long term solution here, then he needs to be given free reign to clean out the squad this summer and start over. he needs to figure out what fucking formation we're going to play, and then he needs to sell the players that don't fit and buy players that do. we've played a lot of uninspiring football this season. we have about 4-5 solid starters in the first XI (leno, sokratis, torreira, auba/laca) and then a whole lot of question marks.

if our transfer budget is limited, then we absolutely have to sell mkh and ozil this summer to recoup wages and hopefully be able to divert that money to players who can make a difference. the board needs to take a hard look at itself and admit mistakes on big money transfers and sell players for what we can get. we paid £35m for mustafi, and hes worth maybe £10m on the market if some club thinks they can fix him. sell him. take the £10m. use that toward another player. that same decision can be made regarding 6-7 other players hovering around the first team.

if emery isnt the long term answer, then the club better fucking figure out who is, they better sign him, and they better let him clean out the club and start over. this club needs to have an identity. either we're an attacking team or a defending team, not some blah inconsistent waste of time. this club has ruined so many weekends for me in the last 10 years. and it has appreciated in value beyond anyone's imagination. its time they make a serious investment in the club, both in vision and in the bottom line.

after calming down from yesterday, i think there are a few things to add here.

lets assume that our poor league form recently is because the players are distracted by the possibility of winning the europa league. that seems a stretch, but lets just assume it. now, there is no more distraction in the league. we're not finishing in the top 4. and to be completely honest, if the clear choice is "finish top 4 or win the europa league", you'd obviously pick win the europa league, because its a chance to win european silverware, and you get into the CL. so great. but our method for preparing for that was to completely fall to pieces in the league, and that doesnt bode well for our form in europe either. but now there are no excuses. no nerves for our final league game, since we're almost definitely not making top 4 unless tottenscum lose by like 4 or 5 goals. so, we obviously better get the result of the season on thursday.
this summer, there needs to be a MASSIVE cleanout. silent stan is a businessman and he understands the concept of sunk costs. we're not getting back our £35m on mustafi, and given ozil's huge wages, we're not getting much of a transfer fee for him. it is costing us on the pitch to keep mustafi because we dont want to take a loss on him. sell him for £10m. or £8m. or what you can get. trust your scouts to find underpriced talents.
emery needs to figure out what he wants to do, what formation he wants to play, and how we want to play. if his style is "react to the other team week to week, change formations constantly, and plan for each match based on our opponent", then we need to sell our one track players who cant play multiple positions and do multiple things. ozil is a 10, hes not a winger, he can only play one way, so he has to go. someone like iwobi needs to go. and someone like AMN, who has shown he can play in a lot of different areas, should be given more responsibility and tied down on a longer contract. every midfielder/forward should be evaluated to determine if they can comfortably fit into a 4-3-3 and a 3-5-2. if they can't, then they should be sold. end of story

this summer is massive. if the club does not have confidence in emery, they should dump him. if they have confidence that hes the right manager, then they need to support him by allowing him to sell anyone who doesnt fit and buy players, to a reasonable degree, that fit his vision for the team. half measures either way are not acceptable. if hes not the guy, the guy needs to be identified now and brought in, and he needs to have the same free reign over the players at the club.

Gazza M

Qwiss! wrote:
Yeah but thats absolutely standard for what Ozil does during matches when he's off the ball. Even in attack lately when he makes a run and doesn't get the pass he just stands around instead of getting back into the game. He clearly doesn't give a shit any more.

Usually i don't pile on with ozils effort levels, but there was a moment in a recent game where he took 30 seconds to sloooowly walk back onside, and we were actually in possession at the time

Anzac

mdgoonah41 wrote:
mdgoonah41 wrote:
ive been backing emery all season, and until we've fallen apart here, he looked like he deserved the credit and support. im not sure now.

if hes the long term solution here, then he needs to be given free reign to clean out the squad this summer and start over. he needs to figure out what fucking formation we're going to play, and then he needs to sell the players that don't fit and buy players that do. we've played a lot of uninspiring football this season. we have about 4-5 solid starters in the first XI (leno, sokratis, torreira, auba/laca) and then a whole lot of question marks.

if our transfer budget is limited, then we absolutely have to sell mkh and ozil this summer to recoup wages and hopefully be able to divert that money to players who can make a difference. the board needs to take a hard look at itself and admit mistakes on big money transfers and sell players for what we can get. we paid £35m for mustafi, and hes worth maybe £10m on the market if some club thinks they can fix him. sell him. take the £10m. use that toward another player. that same decision can be made regarding 6-7 other players hovering around the first team.

if emery isnt the long term answer, then the club better fucking figure out who is, they better sign him, and they better let him clean out the club and start over. this club needs to have an identity. either we're an attacking team or a defending team, not some blah inconsistent waste of time. this club has ruined so many weekends for me in the last 10 years. and it has appreciated in value beyond anyone's imagination. its time they make a serious investment in the club, both in vision and in the bottom line.

after calming down from yesterday, i think there are a few things to add here.

lets assume that our poor league form recently is because the players are distracted by the possibility of winning the europa league. that seems a stretch, but lets just assume it. now, there is no more distraction in the league. we're not finishing in the top 4. and to be completely honest, if the clear choice is "finish top 4 or win the europa league", you'd obviously pick win the europa league, because its a chance to win european silverware, and you get into the CL. so great. but our method for preparing for that was to completely fall to pieces in the league, and that doesnt bode well for our form in europe either. but now there are no excuses. no nerves for our final league game, since we're almost definitely not making top 4 unless tottenscum lose by like 4 or 5 goals. so, we obviously better get the result of the season on thursday.

this summer, there needs to be a MASSIVE cleanout. silent stan is a businessman and he understands the concept of sunk costs. we're not getting back our £35m on mustafi, and given ozil's huge wages, we're not getting much of a transfer fee for him. it is costing us on the pitch to keep mustafi because we dont want to take a loss on him. sell him for £10m. or £8m. or what you can get. trust your scouts to find underpriced talents.

emery needs to figure out what he wants to do, what formation he wants to play, and how we want to play. if his style is "react to the other team week to week, change formations constantly, and plan for each match based on our opponent", then we need to sell our one track players who cant play multiple positions and do multiple things. ozil is a 10, hes not a winger, he can only play one way, so he has to go. someone like iwobi needs to go. and someone like AMN, who has shown he can play in a lot of different areas, should be given more responsibility and tied down on a longer contract. every midfielder/forward should be evaluated to determine if they can comfortably fit into a 4-3-3 and a 3-5-2. if they can't, then they should be sold. end of story

this summer is massive. if the club does not have confidence in emery, they should dump him. if they have confidence that hes the right manager, then they need to support him by allowing him to sell anyone who doesnt fit and buy players, to a reasonable degree, that fit his vision for the team. half measures either way are not acceptable. if hes not the guy, the guy needs to be identified now and brought in, and he needs to have the same free reign over the players at the club.

Agreed & as such IMO there needs to be a collective review of all aspects of the season, and there needs to be a comprehensive plan to address the numerous issues next season.
Foremost they need to establish just how the wheels fell off so badly in the run Home.
Whilst I'm all for giving Emery another season IMO it would be utterly pointless to do so if we aren't going to give him the support to enable him to show his methods & style work.

Qwiss

Gazza M wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Yeah but thats absolutely standard for what Ozil does during matches when he's off the ball. Even in attack lately when he makes a run and doesn't get the pass he just stands around instead of getting back into the game. He clearly doesn't give a shit any more.

Usually i don't pile on with ozils effort levels, but there was a moment in a recent game where he took 30 seconds to sloooowly walk back onside, and we were actually in possession at the time

Its the sort of thing that he used to do but he'd jog back, it'd be kind of annoying and its what had people calling him lazy, etc but he was still pretty good then. Now he isn't bothered and it happens more and more often.

Sicario

Good post mdgoonah41

goon

I've noticed much better effort levels from him when it comes to closing down, but as you guys point out it's his intensity levels when we have the ball that are lacking. There was a counter against Brighton where you could see he only started really sprinting after a good few seconds of ball watching. He's basically got a mild form of whatever Podolski had, where he forgets that he's actually playing in a football match.

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