flobaba wrote:

Imperative that we are aggressive and decisive in the transfer window. Targets must have been identified already and once the window opens, deploy a full court press on them and their clubs immediately.

That's the minimum I expect of Mislintat. I'm actually a bit disappointed that we've had so little credible rumours about new signings in January. Doesn't seem like we even began working on January transfers. Hopefully we're just super good at being secret.

Herbas wrote:
flobaba wrote:

Imperative that we are aggressive and decisive in the transfer window. Targets must have been identified already and once the window opens, deploy a full court press on them and their clubs immediately.

That's the minimum I expect of Mislintat. I'm actually a bit disappointed that we've had so little credible rumours about new signings in January. Doesn't seem like we even began working on January transfers. Hopefully we're just super good at being secret.

id guess its the latter.

I watched a clip with Raul Sanllehi a month or so back where he said that he doesn't believe in the January transfer window. Ideally you plan for the season in the summer and then stick to that plan.

Injuries and special opportunities might have changed the plan, but I doubt we've been looking at first team signings up until now... aside from maybe keeping track of the Dembele situation. I think we're more likely to recall Calum Chambers than sign a new defender as things stand.

Klaus wrote:

I watched a clip with Raul Sanllehi a month or so back where he said that he doesn't believe in the January transfer window. Ideally you plan for the season in the summer and then stick to that plan.

Injuries and special opportunities might have changed the plan, but I doubt we've been looking at first team signings up until now... aside from maybe keeping track of the Dembele situation. I think we're more likely to recall Calum Chambers than sign a new defender as things stand.

i thought i read that we cant recall chambers?

Ah, right. Any player can be recalled if both clubs agree though, but Fulham might not be so keen on it without a clause.

We could maybe work out a deal where we loan them someone else instead and take back Chambers. He has mostly played in midfield for them. Perhaps they'd take Elneny in his stead?

Klaus wrote:

Ah, right. Any player can be recalled if both clubs agree though, but Fulham might not be so keen on it without a clause.

We could maybe work out a deal where we loan them someone else instead and take back Chambers. He has mostly played in midfield for them. Perhaps they'd take Elneny in his stead?

Wonder if this is the purpose of the loan = to develop him into a DLP cover for Xhaka as we saw in pre-season?
In which case I wonder if we'd recall him to play at CB even if we could do so?

Have read a suggestion that we should not be planning to sign a CB in Jan as we have 3 CBs coming back from injury (including Mustafi), as well as 2 FBs who can play in the position if needs be = we have the numbers.  It was even suggested that we should also retain the back3 even in a makeshift capacity so as to look to maximise our current attacking capability and performances, and a CB should only be signed in Jan if it is as part of our plans going forward, as we have bigger priorities elsewhere.

Anzac wrote:
Klaus wrote:

Ah, right. Any player can be recalled if both clubs agree though, but Fulham might not be so keen on it without a clause.

We could maybe work out a deal where we loan them someone else instead and take back Chambers. He has mostly played in midfield for them. Perhaps they'd take Elneny in his stead?

Wonder if this is the purpose of the loan = to develop him into a DLP cover for Xhaka as we saw in pre-season?

I don't think so. He was loaned out as a centreback and then someone at Fulham suggested to Ranieri that they could try Chambers there since they were short of options apparently.

He's not good enough to replace Xhaka at Arsenal at any rate. His distribution is alright for a centreback but he's nowhere near the top midfielders. He's subpar from a technical viewpoint too.

Chambers should be sold. Was a bad buy at the price, but you can't win them all.

Anzac wrote:

Have read a suggestion that we should not be planning to sign a CB in Jan as we have 3 CBs coming back from injury (including Mustafi), as well as 2 FBs who can play in the position if needs be = we have the numbers.

Sounds like Wenger speak to me. I can't remember a single time we got this kind of decision right in the last 22 years. "We're a few people short, but we have some underwhelming players coming back soon so we should be okay, and don't forget Diaby can play there"

Klaus wrote:
Anzac wrote:

Wonder if this is the purpose of the loan = to develop him into a DLP cover for Xhaka as we saw in pre-season?

I don't think so. He was loaned out as a centreback and then someone at Fulham suggested to Ranieri that they could try Chambers there since they were short of options apparently.

He's not good enough to replace Xhaka at Arsenal at any rate. His distribution is alright for a centreback but he's nowhere near the top midfielders. He's subpar from a technical viewpoint too.

Chambers played DLP in pre-season and did quite well & there was a suggestion that he could be developed in that area.  I don't think it was ever suggested that he'd become a starting player but would possibly be more useful than Elneny as cover.

Klaus wrote:
Anzac wrote:

Have read a suggestion that we should not be planning to sign a CB in Jan as we have 3 CBs coming back from injury (including Mustafi), as well as 2 FBs who can play in the position if needs be = we have the numbers.

Sounds like Wenger speak to me. I can't remember a single time we got this kind of decision right in the last 22 years. "We're a few people short, but we have some underwhelming players coming back soon so we should be okay, and don't forget Diaby can play there"

Agreed - and IMO this is the sort of conservative thinking/approach/stench that will be the hardest to change from the Wenger Era, because it didn't begin and end with AW but was ingrained under PHW.

Goodness.
Cahill turns 33 next week. Can only work as a plug, but that leaves us with 3 pensioners in central defense
Bailly showed potential until Mourinho broke him. Can we put him back on the trajectory he was on 3 years ago, and is he an ongoing injury concern?

When was the last time we signed someone useful from United? Every time we do business they dump their undesirables on us, and then we're stuck with them for years.

Bailly is useless, and a walking injury to boot. No wonder they want to be rid of him. There are so many good defenders in Europe that we can go after. There's absolutely no reason to rummage through the Premier League bargain bin.

Klaus wrote:

When was the last time we signed someone useful from United? Every time we do business they dump their undesirables on us, and then we're stuck with them for years.

Bailly is useless, and a walking injury to boot. No wonder they want to be rid of him. There are so many good defenders in Europe that we can go after. There's absolutely no reason to rummage through the Premier League bargain bin.

pretty much. i can think of 8 or 9 centerbacks playing in italy that id love here, right off the top of my head. paying the premier league premium for shitty players is bad business, which hopefully the higher ups understand.

We need a hip madness signing to add appeal and vibrancy to the team and to mark Ermery’s era

Someone like Sancho.

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:

We need a hip madness signing to add appeal and vibrancy to the team and to mark Ermery’s era

Someone like Sancho.

We already got Nelson, fam.

We need Sancho to complete England's future attacking trio.

im as excited for a nelson as ive been about any of our youth products since cesc. i think hes going to legit come in and make a difference next season. seems to have the right attitude.

mdgoonah41 wrote:

im as excited for a nelson as ive been about any of our youth products since cesc. i think hes going to legit come in and make a difference next season. seems to have the right attitude.

Which is why I would be surprised if we bought a winger in Jan, unless we already know we are going to sell players because they don't fit the requirements.

Huge hopes for Reiss but I'm trying to temper my expectations.

Hopefully one of the reasons he's barely starting for Hoff is that Nagelsmann knows he's coming back to us soon so no point in developing him for too much longer.

I really don't think that's it. He's probably not ready to start regularly, and if he did we'd see his numbers decline considerably.

Yep, he's nowhere near ready. Nagelsmann is keeping him on the bench because he isn't mature enough to play a tactical role. That's why he's usually thrown on as a forward too. Lad has devastating potential though and I'd bet my house on him making it here eventually. Meanwhile he's getting excellent development for free in Germany. I'd be happy to loan him to Hoffenheim for another year if we get another winger in.

I’m not sold on him to be honest.

Hoping he becomes a bit more explosive

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:

I’m not sold on him to be honest.

Hoping he becomes a bit more explosive

huh?

hes quite explosive.

Anzac wrote:
mdgoonah41 wrote:

im as excited for a nelson as ive been about any of our youth products since cesc. i think hes going to legit come in and make a difference next season. seems to have the right attitude.

Which is why I would be surprised if we bought a winger in Jan, unless we already know we are going to sell players because they don't fit the requirements.

If we are going to play with wingers we need to add more than 1 to the squad though

Qwiss! wrote:
Anzac wrote:

Which is why I would be surprised if we bought a winger in Jan, unless we already know we are going to sell players because they don't fit the requirements.

If we are going to play with wingers we need to add more than 1 to the squad though

Which is where the selling of square peg players comes into it.
After todays Europa game I'm up for 2 starting wingers and sending the kids on loan until they can warrant speculation on merit.

Again the question is as to what shape we are going to play beyond this season?
IMO if 4231 the we want wingers, whereas if a back3 with WBs then we can look at goal scoring AM types for the 3421.

The biggest conundrum still remains that we have 2 starting quality CFs who are capable of scoring over 20 goals each per season, and work well in the middle together.

To my mind, the 3-4-3 suits us best except for having to invest in a couple of CBs in the winter transfer window. It works well with the 2 sitting MFs, full backs to provide width, 2 AMs who can link play either moving vertically or horizontally as required. The one thing we don't have to play that formation is a genuinely ball-playing CB who can roam and be the extra man in MF.

Klaus wrote:

Feel terrible for the lad. That's probably his Arsenal career gone.

We really have to buy someone in January now. Get out that cheque book and sign Manolas before Real beat us to it.

Personally think that’s way, way over the top. He’s 23, has 7 or 8 years + at the top and has an injury that will mean he misses 6 months of football. ACL is still a big injury, but 100% not something that should reduce him physically, as long as A) there’s minimal residual damage to the knee, i.e it’s a straightforward ACL repair and B) he rehabs diligently.

IIRC it has been said when we first went with the 343 under AW, that it suited our CBs better as part of a 3 rather than as a pairing because the extra man helped to balance their short comings as both a pair in a back4 and as individuals. Tactically it enables the centre CB to play more on the front foot and to step out to attack the ball in midfield.

As for a ball playing CB the same issue has seen a number of midfielders converted to play the role to bring the ball out from defence - Busquets, Mascherano, Martinez & there are no doubt others with varying degrees of success. I suspect AW was experimenting along these same lines when we saw the likes of Elneny used in the centre of a 3 man defence in pre-season.

IIRC one of the more successful such conversions has been Kevin Vogt at Hoffenheim, who not only brings the ball out from defence into midfield but also acts as their DLP in doing so as his passing is so good. Chapman did something similar with his 'WM', and also Taylor at Watford = both used accurate ball passers from defence, but it was interpreted as long/hoof ball rather than passing out from defence.

Makoto Hasebe is leagues ahead of Vogt in that role. I'd go as far as saying there's not a single player in Europe as good in that ball playing middle centre back position as him.

jones wrote:

Makoto Hasebe is leagues ahead of Vogt in that role. I'd go as far as saying there's not a single player in Europe as good in that ball playing middle centre back position as him.

Thanx for the info.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/16954/Show/Makoto-Hasebe
Do I detect a local bias?  ;D 
Problem being for us is that he's short in terms of CBs and more so that he's 34.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/72266/Show/Kevin-Vogt
By contrast Vogt is 27 and over 190cm tall,
and his passing is rated as a strength.

if we want a young, ballplaying CB from the budesliga, surely we should be after pavard, no?

Pavard would be truly sensational, but isn’t he Bayern bound?

There is a nasty rumour of Cahill in January.

We had plenty of rumours of Fellaini too, it's just bullshit

Anzac wrote:
jones wrote:

Makoto Hasebe is leagues ahead of Vogt in that role. I'd go as far as saying there's not a single player in Europe as good in that ball playing middle centre back position as him.

Thanx for the info.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/16954/Show/Makoto-Hasebe
Do I detect a local bias?  ;D 
Problem being for us is that he's short in terms of CBs and more so that he's 34.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/72266/Show/Kevin-Vogt
By contrast Vogt is 27 and over 190cm tall,
and his passing is rated as a strength.

Really can't argue with this, Jones. It's right there on the page: Hasebe has no significant strengths.