mdgoonah41 wrote:

im as excited for a nelson as ive been about any of our youth products since cesc. i think hes going to legit come in and make a difference next season. seems to have the right attitude.

Which is why I would be surprised if we bought a winger in Jan, unless we already know we are going to sell players because they don't fit the requirements.

Huge hopes for Reiss but I'm trying to temper my expectations.

Hopefully one of the reasons he's barely starting for Hoff is that Nagelsmann knows he's coming back to us soon so no point in developing him for too much longer.

I really don't think that's it. He's probably not ready to start regularly, and if he did we'd see his numbers decline considerably.

Yep, he's nowhere near ready. Nagelsmann is keeping him on the bench because he isn't mature enough to play a tactical role. That's why he's usually thrown on as a forward too. Lad has devastating potential though and I'd bet my house on him making it here eventually. Meanwhile he's getting excellent development for free in Germany. I'd be happy to loan him to Hoffenheim for another year if we get another winger in.

I’m not sold on him to be honest.

Hoping he becomes a bit more explosive

Just seen a few highlights... he still lacks that power.

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:

I’m not sold on him to be honest.

Hoping he becomes a bit more explosive

huh?

hes quite explosive.

Anzac wrote:

mdgoonah41 wrote:

im as excited for a nelson as ive been about any of our youth products since cesc. i think hes going to legit come in and make a difference next season. seems to have the right attitude.

Which is why I would be surprised if we bought a winger in Jan, unless we already know we are going to sell players because they don't fit the requirements.

If we are going to play with wingers we need to add more than 1 to the squad though

Qwiss! wrote:

Anzac wrote:

Which is why I would be surprised if we bought a winger in Jan, unless we already know we are going to sell players because they don't fit the requirements.

If we are going to play with wingers we need to add more than 1 to the squad though

Which is where the selling of square peg players comes into it.
After todays Europa game I'm up for 2 starting wingers and sending the kids on loan until they can warrant speculation on merit.

Again the question is as to what shape we are going to play beyond this season?
IMO if 4231 the we want wingers, whereas if a back3 with WBs then we can look at goal scoring AM types for the 3421.

The biggest conundrum still remains that we have 2 starting quality CFs who are capable of scoring over 20 goals each per season, and work well in the middle together.

To my mind, the 3-4-3 suits us best except for having to invest in a couple of CBs in the winter transfer window. It works well with the 2 sitting MFs, full backs to provide width, 2 AMs who can link play either moving vertically or horizontally as required. The one thing we don't have to play that formation is a genuinely ball-playing CB who can roam and be the extra man in MF.

IIRC it has been said when we first went with the 343 under AW, that it suited our CBs better as part of a 3 rather than as a pairing because the extra man helped to balance their short comings as both a pair in a back4 and as individuals. Tactically it enables the centre CB to play more on the front foot and to step out to attack the ball in midfield.

As for a ball playing CB the same issue has seen a number of midfielders converted to play the role to bring the ball out from defence - Busquets, Mascherano, Martinez & there are no doubt others with varying degrees of success. I suspect AW was experimenting along these same lines when we saw the likes of Elneny used in the centre of a 3 man defence in pre-season.

IIRC one of the more successful such conversions has been Kevin Vogt at Hoffenheim, who not only brings the ball out from defence into midfield but also acts as their DLP in doing so as his passing is so good. Chapman did something similar with his 'WM', and also Taylor at Watford = both used accurate ball passers from defence, but it was interpreted as long/hoof ball rather than passing out from defence.

Makoto Hasebe is leagues ahead of Vogt in that role. I'd go as far as saying there's not a single player in Europe as good in that ball playing middle centre back position as him.

jones wrote:

Makoto Hasebe is leagues ahead of Vogt in that role. I'd go as far as saying there's not a single player in Europe as good in that ball playing middle centre back position as him.

Thanx for the info.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/16954/Show/Makoto-Hasebe
Do I detect a local bias?  ;D 
Problem being for us is that he's short in terms of CBs and more so that he's 34.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/72266/Show/Kevin-Vogt
By contrast Vogt is 27 and over 190cm tall,
and his passing is rated as a strength.

if we want a young, ballplaying CB from the budesliga, surely we should be after pavard, no?

Diallo

Pavard would be truly sensational, but isn’t he Bayern bound?

There is a nasty rumour of Cahill in January.

We had plenty of rumours of Fellaini too, it's just bullshit

Anzac wrote:

jones wrote:

Makoto Hasebe is leagues ahead of Vogt in that role. I'd go as far as saying there's not a single player in Europe as good in that ball playing middle centre back position as him.

Thanx for the info.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/16954/Show/Makoto-Hasebe
Do I detect a local bias?  ;D 
Problem being for us is that he's short in terms of CBs and more so that he's 34.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/72266/Show/Kevin-Vogt
By contrast Vogt is 27 and over 190cm tall,
and his passing is rated as a strength.

Really can't argue with this, Jones. It's right there on the page: Hasebe has no significant strengths.