Prick. One of the elephants in the room to me, and I sady don't expect such masses to confront or query the uncomfortable truths about themselves in the slightest.

@[deleted] that's messed up, sorry; hopefully safe havens for both now.

Managed to get two families in, they work with a friend for a German IT company. He contacted me after they managed to run, gonna pick them up today or tomorrow. My apartment is not 100% done but still...better then nothing for them.

HomeSteak wrote:

Managed to get two families in, they work with a friend for a German IT company. He contacted me after they managed to run, gonna pick them up today or tomorrow. My apartment is not 100% done but still...better then nothing for them.

Good on you mate. How are things on your side of the border right now?

So should Putin take control of Ukraine. What’s next? Does he stop there in his mind?

HomeSteak wrote:

Managed to get two families in, they work with a friend for a German IT company. He contacted me after they managed to run, gonna pick them up today or tomorrow. My apartment is not 100% done but still...better then nothing for them.

Top work. Super

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:

So should Putin take control of Ukraine. What’s next? Does he stop there in his mind?

Didn't Putin already threaten Finland next?

Top stuff Homesteak, it's a great thing to open your home. I'm very glad to hear your brother's out of the country too Flo.

Burnwinter wrote:

Top stuff Homesteak, it's a great thing to open your home. I'm very glad to hear your brother's out of the country too Flo.

I second that, lots of respect for you Homesteak, and I hope your brother and his girlfriend can start to rest and heal now that they're safe flobaba.

As far as Putin's concerned, I'm pretty sure he doesn't stop with the Ukraine in his mind, but I'd wager should Kiev fall, he will stop there for the time being. I've read a few more interviews with his contemporaries, russian writers and journalists in trying to understand him, and he comes across as an imperialist, but a calculated and pragmatic one. Russia will not recover if he continues this madness and I think he knows that.

Clrnc wrote:

Didn't Putin already threaten Finland next?

If he is serious about that then that's ww3. Nato or not.

Echo that.

Has Putin badly misjudged this? Is this all a negotiating tactic? Are they holding back? Really struggling to see the end game here, at least one that doesn't leave them significantly weakened in almost every way imaginable.

There seems to be a negotiation between the two parties to be held today near the Belorussian border. Don't know if they are going for a simple armistice or hammer out something more concrete. Anyway I would have to think Putin will consider it a failure to be coming to the table without control of Kyiv.

goon wrote:

Echo that.

Has Putin badly misjudged this? Is this all a negotiating tactic? Are they holding back? Really struggling to see the end game here, at least one that doesn't leave them significantly weakened in almost every way imaginable.

The biggest beneficiaries of this will be the USA in the long term. Seems very short-sighted from Putin at the moment.

Kurt Eisner wrote:

Burnwinter wrote:

Top stuff Homesteak, it's a great thing to open your home. I'm very glad to hear your brother's out of the country too Flo.

I second that, lots of respect for you Homesteak, and I hope your brother and his girlfriend can start to rest and heal now that they're safe flobaba.

As far as Putin's concerned, I'm pretty sure he doesn't stop with the Ukraine in his mind, but I'd wager should Kiev fall, he will stop there for the time being. I've read a few more interviews with his contemporaries, russian writers and journalists in trying to understand him, and he comes across as an imperialist, but a calculated and pragmatic one. Russia will not recover if he continues this madness and I think he knows that.

Early days but Russia's troops seem to mainly have a manpower advantage. Technologically they've not established any kind of superiority relative to their reputation. They've already lost more troops than the US lost in 20 years in Afghanistan so while they will more likely achieve their objectives in Ukraine I don't think they've shown much to make NATO overly concerned.

jones wrote:

Mirth wrote:

Went pretty much perfectly for American fracking companies who can expect big orders coming in soon, seen several articles already even calling for fracking to be unbanned in Germany and Europe overall to reduce reliance on Russia. €100bn for arms when just weeks ago Scholz and Lindner told everyone that now with the end of the pandemic in sight we will have to start consolidating finances and return to fiscal frugality is also great to hear.

Virtually the same companies ie Halliburton, Chevron, Lockheed Martin, Airbus BAE etc that made huge profits in Iraq since 2003 will make a killing now too. Everybody else loses

I've tried to completely tune those two twats out, but to no avail unfortunately. Germany really is a liberal US hellscape.

jones wrote:

Mirth wrote:

Went pretty much perfectly for American fracking companies who can expect big orders coming in soon, seen several articles already even calling for fracking to be unbanned in Germany and Europe overall to reduce reliance on Russia. €100bn for arms when just weeks ago Scholz and Lindner told everyone that now with the end of the pandemic in sight we will have to start consolidating finances and return to fiscal frugality is also great to hear. Just to be absolutely certain that money won't be touched for anything else Scholz wants to actually modify the German constitution to include that fund for the German military.

Virtually the same companies ie Halliburton, Chevron, Lockheed Martin, Airbus BAE etc that made huge profits in Iraq since 2003 will make a killing now too. Everybody else loses

It has but then that's exactly why invading Ukraine was a terrible idea - it unambiguously reinforces that Europe has a choice between the US and Russia (and China from a trade perspective). And the majority of countries that are already in NATO would rather retain that membership, particularly those that are in Eastern Europe.

Prior to this, NATO had lost its way to a degree and there was plenty calling for an independent European security framework. That's what Russia should have pushed for but now that's unlikely to transpire.

There are reports that Russia is reconsidering its approach and might use more devastating arms to secure its objectives as in Chechnya. I don't think we can rule out that possibility despite how it would be received, as the stakes are now very high.

Mirth wrote:

Kurt Eisner wrote:

I second that, lots of respect for you Homesteak, and I hope your brother and his girlfriend can start to rest and heal now that they're safe flobaba.

As far as Putin's concerned, I'm pretty sure he doesn't stop with the Ukraine in his mind, but I'd wager should Kiev fall, he will stop there for the time being. I've read a few more interviews with his contemporaries, russian writers and journalists in trying to understand him, and he comes across as an imperialist, but a calculated and pragmatic one. Russia will not recover if he continues this madness and I think he knows that.

Early days but Russia's troops seem to mainly have a manpower advantage. Technologically they've not established any kind of superiority relative to their reputation. They've already lost more troops than the US lost in 20 years in Afghanistan so while they will more likely achieve their objectives in Ukraine I don't think they've shown much to make NATO overly concerned.

I agree, but then again, what would concern NATO? The US could probably take on the rest of the world and win at this point. Manpower is really the only advantage anyone will ever have over them, let alone NATO as a whole.

Kurt Eisner wrote:

Mirth wrote:

Early days but Russia's troops seem to mainly have a manpower advantage. Technologically they've not established any kind of superiority relative to their reputation. They've already lost more troops than the US lost in 20 years in Afghanistan so while they will more likely achieve their objectives in Ukraine I don't think they've shown much to make NATO overly concerned.

I agree, but then again, what would concern NATO? The US could probably take on the rest of the world and win at this point. Manpower is really the only advantage anyone will ever have over them, let alone NATO as a whole.

They couldn't in the Middle East.

There's a difference between being the aggressor or taking a defensive position. I think most NATO states including the UK, Italy, France etc could fend off Russia invading quite comfortably. They couldn't invade Russia though. I doubt even the US could.