Unai Emery - Initial thoughts: Page 35 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Unai Emery - Initial thoughts

Anzac

jones wrote:
No sack him now and bring in Jardim. Then if he's unable to fix the team in six months sack him too. Then maybe try Arteta for a six month period then Moyes or someone.

Clearly at some point some miracle worker will emerge who can whip this shambles devoid of any tactical or positional awareness into challengers within half a season, I mean every club found one of those right?

The sarcasm is strong in this one.
😆

Shady

There's a lot of sarcasm on here tonight tbf 😆. Have to ride the wave.

DiabyKungFu

Anzac wrote:
jones wrote:
No sack him now and bring in Jardim. Then if he's unable to fix the team in six months sack him too. Then maybe try Arteta for a six month period then Moyes or someone.

Clearly at some point some miracle worker will emerge who can whip this shambles devoid of any tactical or positional awareness into challengers within half a season, I mean every club found one of those right?

The sarcasm is strong in this one.
😆

The goalpost shifting is strong in this one.
http://onemoreinthetolly.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3846&pid=790749#pid790749

Anzac

I wonder if Emery's style shares an important key element to AW's style, in that both need balanced & developed players to work effectively?

AW's style struggles with developing player because they are still learning and lack experience.

Emery's approach to changing formations and tactics in game may also struggle when he doesn't have players who are not used to such a system or working as a unit, and need to be constantly told what to do even regarding the basics as a unit.

jones

Diaby KungFu wrote:
Anzac wrote:
The sarcasm is strong in this one.
😆

The goalpost shifting is strong in this one.
http://onemoreinthetolly.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3846&pid=790749#pid790749

What's wrong with that post other than they spent another 150m since then on Alisson Fabinho and Keita? Again Man City two years ago looked worse than we have this season, even with the 200m defence a large part of their 17/18 success was them learning what their manager is asking them to do. Did you expect it to happen overnight when our lot has worked under Wenger and Primorac for years?

Also honoured you'd go out of your way to dig through my posts to find any goalposts shifting. Not necessary with you of course every post speaks for itself

DiabyKungFu

jones wrote:
Diaby KungFu wrote:
The goalpost shifting is strong in this one.
http://onemoreinthetolly.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3846&pid=790749#pid790749

What's wrong with that post other than they spent another 150m since then on Alisson Fabinho and Keita? Again Man City two years ago looked worse than we have this season, even with the 200m defence a large part of their 17/18 success was them learning what their manager is asking them to do. Did you expect it to happen overnight when our lot has worked under Wenger and Primorac for years?

The point was that you were very all-in on the "Our players are good and if we replace our coach with another coach we will have massively better results" line of thinking (i.e. "[font=Source Sans Pro]the boost the team will experience if we get the right man in charge can absolutely not be understated"[/font]). Now we have not had massively better results and it is apparently because our players are not good. You seem to want things every which way. We have demonstrably not had a big boost. Does this mean Emery is not the right man in charge?

Anzac

Diaby KungFu wrote:
jones wrote:
What's wrong with that post other than they spent another 150m since then on Alisson Fabinho and Keita? Again Man City two years ago looked worse than we have this season, even with the 200m defence a large part of their 17/18 success was them learning what their manager is asking them to do. Did you expect it to happen overnight when our lot has worked under Wenger and Primorac for years?

The point was that you were very all-in on the "Our players are good and if we replace our coach with another coach we will have massively better results" line of thinking (i.e. "[font=Source Sans Pro]the boost the team will experience if we get the right man in charge can absolutely not be understated"[/font]). Now we have not had massively better results and it is apparently because our players are not good. You seem to want things every which way. We have demonstrably not had a big boost. Does this mean Emery is not the right man in charge?

In terms of points per game in the PL we have had a massive boost when compared to AW's last 19 league games = a 46% increase. If we include all games played the increase is 1/3 or 33% which is still significant.

So far as the season goes we are on track for a total of 76 points which is a 13 point increase over last season, and which AW only bettered once this calendar decade.
This loss A v LFC does not change this projection as we lost our opening fixture at the start of the season, and we still have 2 more losses up our sleeve in the PL to match the front half of the season.

The real test in terms of the league season comes from when the Jan transfer window shuts, as our record last season was split 50/50 with 7 wins and 7 losses from Jan 30.

Rohit

Anzac wrote:
In terms of points per game in the PL we have had a massive boost when compared to AW's last 19 league games = a 46% increase. If we include all games played the increase is 1/3 or 33% which is still significant.

While I think any call for Emery's head is a massive overreaction, but, this selective picking of results during possibly the worst period of our most successful ever manager to project our improvement is extremely convenient.

Emery has a lot of work to do and I personally think he needs time but he is not better or worse than Wenger. It's a question of style, philosophy and being upto date with football but ultimately it's all about players which is where Wenger went drastically wrong in his last years. This is where Emery and Mislintat need to succeed.

Rohit

Now is Emery's biggest test in my opinion. I am very interested in seeing how he reacts to this defeat and the ensuing inevitable noise.

jones

Diaby KungFu wrote:
jones wrote:
What's wrong with that post other than they spent another 150m since then on Alisson Fabinho and Keita? Again Man City two years ago looked worse than we have this season, even with the 200m defence a large part of their 17/18 success was them learning what their manager is asking them to do. Did you expect it to happen overnight when our lot has worked under Wenger and Primorac for years?

The point was that you were very all-in on the "Our players are good and if we replace our coach with another coach we will have massively better results" line of thinking (i.e. "[font=Source Sans Pro]the boost the team will experience if we get the right man in charge can absolutely not be understated"[/font]). Now we have not had massively better results and it is apparently because our players are not good. You seem to want things every which way. We have demonstrably not had a big boost. Does this mean Emery is not the right man in charge?

Did I say anything about when the results would come? Is there some magic point in time that marks when you can tell whether a manager is the right man in charge? Why didn't you pick the timeframe after the game vs Spurs to dig up that post of mine?

You're the one who wants things whatever way you're currently looking at it. You decided for whatever contrarian reasons that Mislintat Emery Torreira Auba all are shit at their respective jobs and you only pipe up when anyone of them has a bad day at the office. You even go to lengths digging people's posts up where they support them. What's your angle here, why would an Arsenal supporter want to do any of that?

Anzac

Rohit wrote:
Anzac wrote:
In terms of points per game in the PL we have had a massive boost when compared to AW's last 19 league games = a 46% increase. If we include all games played the increase is 1/3 or 33% which is still significant.

While I think any call for Emery's head is a massive overreaction, but, this selective picking of results during possibly the worst period of our most successful ever manager to project our improvement is extremely convenient.

Emery has a lot of work to do and I personally think he needs time but he is not better or worse than Wenger. It's a question of style, philosophy and being upto date with football but ultimately it's all about players which is where Wenger went drastically wrong in his last years. This is where Emery and Mislintat need to succeed.

It may well be convenient, but it's also the most relevant and most immediate as it's been done with much the same players.
At the end of the season we may still fail to regain top4, which whilst disappointing does not mean we have had a poor season if we make 76 points.

Agreed that AW has not been 'relevant' as a manager for about a decade as he failed / refused to adapt and more importantly he failed to resolve the now and always prioritised the future.
That said I still think he could succeed & have an impact for a time at one of the bigger clubs with a quality match day squad where he doesn't need to develop players at the same time.

In terms of transfers we need to quickly establish if Emery's style also needs players who are already developed and used to a fluid formation style, and exactly what the expectations are in terms of the club - long and short term.

DiabyKungFu

I don't think Torreira is shit. He is one of the few good things about the club. I just think people calling him one of the best midfielders in the league is taking the piss. He is an incredibly basic player. He gets it and gives it. Like Elneny but actually good. For a team that is actually serious, he is a good tactical option. People feel the need to hype him up to high heavens because he is by far the best signing we made this summer. However, the reason why he's the best signing we made this summer is because we had the most Europa-League-ass transfer window ever on top of hiring the most Europa-League-ass manager ever.

Anzac

There has been a lot of talk during our recent run of poor performances and results, and calls for the manager to adapt his style in order to get the best out of his available players - specifically in regards to Ozil, Rambo and playing both PEA and Lacazette.

IMO this is little different to the debate following our opening losses v MC & CFC in regards to Emery's style of playing out from the back etc. At that time the majority concluded that the emphasis was on the players & team to adapt to the manager's style as opposed to the manager needing to change, but the caveat being that the fundamentals of both new style and resources should not be at odds with each other.

Whilst I still believe this to be the case I believe the issue we have is more one of the previous culture re leadership & communication on the pitch as well as player discipline re positions and roles, even more than the players not being suited to the new style. I believe the talent is there with a few tweaks required, but the mentality and focus are the biggest hurdles in the way of our progress.

Anzac

Diaby KungFu wrote:
I don't think Torreira is shit. He is one of the few good things about the club. I just think people calling him one of the best midfielders in the league is taking the piss. He is an incredibly basic player. He gets it and gives it. Like Elneny but actually good. For a team that is actually serious, he is a good tactical option. People feel the need to hype him up to high heavens because he is by far the best signing we made this summer. However, the reason why he's the best signing we made this summer is because we had the most Europa-League-ass transfer window ever on top of hiring the most Europa-League-ass manager ever.

Just wondering if we actually approached / spoke to any manager who was already in a job, or if we only spoke to those who were designated as being available?

For mind Jardim has a better resume in regards to working with kids & development players,
whereas Emery has won as many titles & silverware as anyone over the last 5 seasons.

arsedocmd

Diaby KungFu wrote:
I don't think Torreira is shit. He is one of the few good things about the club. I just think people calling him one of the best midfielders in the league is taking the piss. He is an incredibly basic player. He gets it and gives it. Like Elneny but actually good. For a team that is actually serious, he is a good tactical option. People feel the need to hype him up to high heavens because he is by far the best signing we made this summer. However, the reason why he's the best signing we made this summer is because we had the most Europa-League-ass transfer window ever on top of hiring the most Europa-League-ass manager ever.

And what's your opinion of aubameyang?

DiabyKungFu

arsedoc md wrote:
Diaby KungFu wrote:
I don't think Torreira is shit. He is one of the few good things about the club. I just think people calling him one of the best midfielders in the league is taking the piss. He is an incredibly basic player. He gets it and gives it. Like Elneny but actually good. For a team that is actually serious, he is a good tactical option. People feel the need to hype him up to high heavens because he is by far the best signing we made this summer. However, the reason why he's the best signing we made this summer is because we had the most Europa-League-ass transfer window ever on top of hiring the most Europa-League-ass manager ever.

And what's your opinion of aubameyang?

He's a one-dimensional goal poacher who we bought on the downside of his peak. We bought him for short-term improvement but there has been no qualitative difference in short-term results since he signed. We also payed out the ass for him. I think you could arguably justify the signing if we were really close to the PL title and needed a little boost to get over the top. However, given the composition of the squad, I think spending that 60m on two promising young players would have boosted our long-term PL title equity significantly more.

Rohit

Anzac wrote:
I wonder if Emery's style shares an important key element to AW's style, in that both need balanced & developed players to work effectively?

The notion that Wenger couldn't develop players is just absurd.

I think Emery will be good enough to develop players too. His challenge at PSG and here has been to not fallout with the stars.

Doc

Think some of the critism Emery has got has been OTT. He has inherited a squad in disarray. Defense is a shambles, star players coasting and a few on the verge of leaving. From my perspective top 4 would be more than enough for me and not the end of the world if it's next season.

Some of his decision making has been strange with selection and formation but he has also improved a number of players and went on a decent unbeaten run when we had less injuries.

However right now this team is crying out for some quality CBs. Kos is done, Mustafi is a clown, Holding is out for a year and Mav is unproven. That just leaves 1 decent CB. He should be screaming out for CB cover in Jan. If this was AW I could easily see him ignoring issue.. Really do not want to see the same with Emery, how he reacts to this situation will say a lot about his ambition imo. Same problem could be said about the wings to a lesser extent.

Need to see that he actually understands what is wrong with the squad and is taking activing decisions to fix it or it will just be more of the same

Anzac

Rohit wrote:
Anzac wrote:
I wonder if Emery's style shares an important key element to AW's style, in that both need balanced & developed players to work effectively?

The notion that Wenger couldn't develop players is just absurd.

I think Emery will be good enough to develop players too. His challenge at PSG and here has been to not fallout with the stars.

I think Aw was very good at the finishing touches to rough diamonds and converting players, but poor at the basics of taking players who were still developing into the senior squad.

Fabregas is possibly the only such player to have succeeded, but his development was done at La Masia.
Just about if not all youngsters AW had at AFC all seemed to plateau once the got to the senior squad - Bellerin being the latest. That said injuries have also had an impact for most but the point remains that IMO there was nothing to support his prioritisation of providing development opportunities via game time in the senior team.

Anzac

Doc wrote:
Think some of the critism Emery has got has been OTT. He has inherited a squad in disarray. Defense is a shambles, star players coasting and a few on the verge of leaving. From my perspective top 4 would be more than enough for me and not the end of the world if it's next season.

Some of his decision making has been strange with selection and formation but he has also improved a number of players and went on a decent unbeaten run when we had less injuries.

However right now this team is crying out for some quality CBs. Kos is done, Mustafi is a clown, Holding is out for a year and Mav is unproven. That just leaves 1 decent CB. He should be screaming out for CB cover in Jan. If this was AW I could easily see him ignoring issue.. Really do not want to see the same with Emery, how he reacts to this situation will say a lot about his ambition imo. Same problem could be said about the wings to a lesser extent.

Need to see that he actually understands what is wrong with the squad and is taking activing decisions to fix it or it will just be more of the same

Need to remember that unlike AW Emery does not have control over signings.
He may ask / prioritise a starting quality CB of a particular type/style, but the DoF & money man may not agree and may be looking at building for the future / next squad build via youth.

Same applies to the last point about being more of the same, as Emery's role is that of Head Coach.
As such I think the signing of Mislintat and Sanllehi both point to a strong focus on youth & development players rather than buying starting quality.

« Previous Page Next Page »