Unai Emery - Initial thoughts: Page 23 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Unai Emery - Initial thoughts

lorddulaarsenal

lol Diaby Kung Fu - terrible judge of footy

DKGooner

Still have reservations, but credit where due today as subs were spot on. Best I've felt about the Arsenal in a long time. Great to see the togetherness of the team in the celebrations.

Burnwinter

Our fullbacks seem ridiculously more effective under Emery than they were for years under Wenger.

I'd be interested in hearing people's views on this, if it's the case, why it's the case (and what we're sacrificing if anything).

banduan

Burnwinter wrote:
Our fullbacks seem ridiculously more effective under Emery than they were for years under Wenger.

I'd be interested in hearing people's views on this, if it's the case, why it's the case (and what we're sacrificing if anything).

They've been liberated by the disciplined base 2 of midfield. With Torreira and Xhaka watching their backs they can do much more up front where they're better.

This was why I was worried with the 3-4-3 change as even though it activates Kola to be that much effective, it incentivises one of the base 2 to move forward and break the hold. The tweak that's been made it seems is to have one of the back 3 to step up and create numbers in the middle third so we have some degree of redundancy.

Of course the other thing we can't ignore is coaching. Somebody's clearly been coaching defence on Bellerin, he's that much better now defending and was excellent in defence vs spuds, brainfart aside.

MistaT

They’re playing further up but we also look to them far more than we did under Wenger. Now Sagna was here for ages, so no surprise we were limited going forward with him as his role/impact was better suited to coverin Walcott and our midfield.

Rohit

Monreal was plenty effective under Wenger. As was Bellerin when he first broke out till he wasn't allowed to leave for Barcelona. Also we became more narrow under Wenger so didn't use fullbacks in the way Emery does. Emery has lifted the whole atmosphere too and the players are responding to him.

Burnwinter

I think those two things: more emphasis on width plus the solid base to midfield—are probably the right basic ingredients that explain it.

I don't agree that our fullbacks were ever this prominent on average in relative terms under Wenger … a couple of purple patches for specific players aside.

Clrnc

We use a lot of our fullbacks in general under Wenger, but one thing Emery made it worked is the amount of cut backs our fullbacks are attempting rather than aimless crosses under Wenger.

We used to cutback a lot back in the days at Highbury, something went missing afterwards but now it's back. As you can generally see in training the cut back moves is one we practice a lot nowadays.

Anzac

Our best performance for some time, and Emery didn't use his preferred formation at any point despite changing the shape in game and using 3 formations = what's not to like considering AW had access to 10 of the 14 players used today.

Mirth

Clrnc wrote:
We used to cutback a lot back in the days at Highbury, something went missing afterwards but now it's back. As you can generally see in training the cut back moves is one we practice a lot nowadays.

Yeah, I always thought our fullbacks since Cole/Lauren just didn't have the aptitude for it.

It's not just cut backs either, that pass from Bellerin in the build up to the second goal was world class.

Anzac

Burnwinter wrote:
Our fullbacks seem ridiculously more effective under Emery than they were for years under Wenger.

I'd be interested in hearing people's views on this, if it's the case, why it's the case (and what we're sacrificing if anything).

The biggest difference being that we are now using the FBs to get behind the defence to get to the by-line and turn them to face their own goal meaning they cannot pick up the runners for the cut back, whereas under AW we played across the top of the area looking for the movement for the through ball.

In terms of sacrifice it means the CMs provide the 1st line defensive cover as opposed to the WFs, and it also means that players are now accountable for their actions/positioning in terms of their roles, and individual glory seeking is no longer tolerated.

Burnwinter

The last two clauses of your final paragraph sound like pure ideology, Anzac. The style of man management has changed but I don't believe we played with zero accountability under Wenger—I just think the parameters of managerial discipline have been changed up a bit.

Agree with the midfielders providing the defensive cover though.

Anzac

Burnwinter wrote:
The last two clauses of your final paragraph sound like pure ideology, Anzac. The style of man management has changed but I don't believe we played with zero accountability under Wenger—I just think the parameters of managerial discipline have been changed up a bit.

Agree with the midfielders providing the defensive cover though.

I'm not saying that there was zero accountability, but that there was a level of tolerance.
Perhaps I'm being harsh but IMO players playing to what suits them best is no longer tolerated in terms of what is considered best for the team, and in particular I am looking at both Ramsey and Ozil.
IMO in the past their best as suits them individually was tolerated by AW because on their day they were amongst the best in their position and roles, whereas now I no longer think that Emery is prepared to carry anyone who is unable to provide the level of requirement without consistency.

For example IMO Rambo should be far more disciplined in terms of his positioning, but he is not because AW not only tolerated it, but his style of play also encouraged players to get forward.

goon

Clrnc wrote:
We use a lot of our fullbacks in general under Wenger, but one thing Emery made it worked is the amount of cut backs our fullbacks are attempting rather than aimless crosses under Wenger.

We used to cutback a lot back in the days at Highbury, something went missing afterwards but now it's back. As you can generally see in training the cut back moves is one we practice a lot nowadays.

I think all he's done really is get rid of the bad habits. Under Wenger when things were not going well you'd see all sorts of bad habits start to appear. In Hectors case you'd see more hopeful crosses, more passes back, less runs in behind etc. If you can largely eliminate those bad habits then you see a more consistent performer and leave less in the hands of a players confidence.

Anzac

goon wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
We use a lot of our fullbacks in general under Wenger, but one thing Emery made it worked is the amount of cut backs our fullbacks are attempting rather than aimless crosses under Wenger.

We used to cutback a lot back in the days at Highbury, something went missing afterwards but now it's back. As you can generally see in training the cut back moves is one we practice a lot nowadays.

I think all he's done really is get rid of the bad habits. Under Wenger when things were not going well you'd see all sorts of bad habits start to appear. In Hectors case you'd see more hopeful crosses, more passes back, less runs in behind etc. If you can largely eliminate those bad habits then you see a more consistent performer and leave less in the hands of a players confidence.

And in doing so he's given the players a game plan to follow that everyone can understand, rather than relying upom individual / intuitive play.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Hector was superb yesterday. He's such a weapon not only with his pace and improved final ball, but with the way he drops his shoulder to carry the ball quickly in-field a bit. It's simple but really effective.

banduan

If you remember under Wenger we had this tendency to have one 'steady' FB and one attacking FB to keep the balance. Our wingplay generally followed that template and a lot of our attacks came down one flank. Sagna was a good continuation of the Lauren mold. That went out the window with the introduction of Bellerin. Monreal was supposed to be the balance but nothing else in the team adapted.

I'm intrigued to see if we keep the 3-4-3 if Monreal is back, or if Emery thinks Kola's such a weapon now he can't be dropped.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Time to let Kola shine IMO. Well, sink or swim with a long run of games.

MistaT

Monreal will be just fine in a 3-4-3, he's great getting forward and would do well in that role.

Ricky1985

Burnwinter wrote:
Our fullbacks seem ridiculously more effective under Emery than they were for years under Wenger.

I'd be interested in hearing people's views on this, if it's the case, why it's the case (and what we're sacrificing if anything).

I think it's to do with drilling patterns in training. Wenger always talked about players having the freedom to make their own choices in the final third and we saw the beautiful spontaneity that freedom produced with the Invincibles. We also saw the mess, to varying degrees, that followed with lesser players.

Emery, like most modern managers, it seems, works almost obsessively on player's understanding patterns and repeating them over and over. It's basic positional play that is a fundamental tenet of Guardiola's coaching, but it seems Wenger was almost ideologically opposed to it (I am to a degree).

So when Bellerin gets in on the overlap, he knows which areas will be attacked by team mates. Something like front post, back post and penalty spot, every single time, and he's repeated the situation a thousand times in training. It takes some of the difficulty away from the moment. And Bellerin needs that because he lacks the technical quality needed to focus mainly on decision making. Whereas someone like Monreal can worry a lot less about his touch and where the ball is, take in the options available and respond in the moment. Hence he and Sanchez used to wreak havoc down that left side under Wenger.

As a sidenote, a couple things mentioned above, I'd say Bellerin has always had very good ground passing with his instep, as in the pass to Ramsey for Aubameyang's second goal, it's anything with power or his laces he struggles with. I also think he's generally been a very good and very underrated defender in everything but his one-v-one defending, where he has a tendency to get caught flat-footed and square on some times. In the box he has always been switched on and aware, especially when crosses clear the centebacks and he needs to react quicker than the forward.

I also loved seeing his aggression yesterday. Bit left field, but I actually think he'll be Arsenal captain one day.

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