QF: Sweden vs England, Saturday 7 July, 14h00 GMT: Page 9 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

QF: Sweden vs England, Saturday 7 July, 14h00 GMT

jones

awooga83 wrote:
jones wrote:
Croatia and France have very few to no PL players and those that play for rivals aren't exactly unlikable like Kanté or Giroud even. Stark contrast to Belgium or obviously England and if you paid attention there are probably even more posters here who dislike the former

Not sure why people seem to sense a bitterness against England, why would anyone go out of their way to hate them for ulterior motives? They play dull football, the Kane cultism is beyond embarrassing, Lingard is an ugly meme, throw in a bunch of divers and Alli the biggest piece of shit in world football or thereabouts and there's plenty to dislike no need for bitterness at all.

England are the only team with an Arsenal representative and the other squad have plenty of players from rivals and who also have players who could be deemed unlikable Pogba and just playing for Chelsea surely is just as sufficient.

I understand people have various motivations for their position but it isn't a rationale position based on club rivalry . I'm all for wanting Arsenal to prevail over all other teams but I don't get consumed in the only way for that to happen is for me to hate anything non Arsenal. I don't understand that mindset.

I genuinely haven't seen Welbeck once in Russia so far, textbook definition of non-entity. Regarding the rest of your first paragraph everything was said in my last post, having Pogba and Kante is not nearly the same as a squad that's half the Spurs team and some sprinkle with the biggest pricks from United and City

No one has said something about hating everything non Arsenal. People dislike the squad obviously not for what they aren't but for what they are

awooga83

Well Belgium have a ton of Chelsea, city, spurs and united so they would surely be just as unappealing. All the sides have characters good and bad I think Pogba is just as unlikable as someone like Alli whereas whatever your view on Kane as a footballer he's pretty boring and uncontroversial so has done little beyond playing for a rival to get people annoyed. I get if your view is players from rival teams make you more likely to be against but that would have to apply across the teams and in that guise England have the only legitimate Arsenal representation whether playing or not.

invisibleman18

Ray wrote:
If England beat the likes of Argentina, Spain, Brazil, Germany, France, Italy on their way then I would say they fully deserve to win, but beating the likes of Tunisia, Panama, Columbia, Sweden and then singing like “its coming home” is annoying.

The team is good but lacks world class individuals.

Can only beat who gets through surely. How did Argentina, Spain, Germany and Italy go in their quarter finals? Did any of them get bundled out by opposition any better than who England have played?

flobaba

I am curious as to whether this particular sentiment (or topic of polarization ?) appears also among the general English public, outside of this forum.

Big Willie

invisibleman18 wrote:
Ray wrote:
If England beat the likes of Argentina, Spain, Brazil, Germany, France, Italy on their way then I would say they fully deserve to win, but beating the likes of Tunisia, Panama, Columbia, Sweden and then singing like “its coming home” is annoying.

The team is good but lacks world class individuals.

Can only beat who gets through surely. How did Argentina, Spain, Germany and Italy go in their quarter finals? Did any of them get bundled out by opposition any better than who England have played?

That's a bit harsh. No opposition can be harder than convincing people you played in a tie that never happened.

Mirth

flobaba wrote:
I am curious as to whether this particular sentiment (or topic of polarization ?) appears also among the general English public, outside of this forum.

Partly because there's a degree of polarisation within Britain as well among Wales, Scotland and England. Its not a big deal and also a generalisation but the sentiment does exist for a vocal minority of supporters.

Don Pacifico

jones wrote:
Don Pacifico wrote:
I mean, there are quite few players from teams that I don't like playing at the World Cup and not all of them are in the England squad. The World Cup is an international tournament, so club loyalties don't factor into this. From my perspective, people should make a distinction between the two.

Why? It's the same sport after all. Feel free to make that distinction for yourself but why should others make it?

Same sport but not the same competition - Arsenal can't win the World Cup.

If you can't divorce international loyalties from club loyalties then I guess you're only watching the World Cup from an academic/intellectual perspective, which for my money isn't the most fun way to enjoy sports.

Out of interest, do you dislike the German team because they're are so many Bayern players in most squads?

Don Pacifico

Qwiss! wrote:
Just because its not as bad as the usual hooliganism doesn't make it not an embarrassment to football fans. Its scumbaggery and should be treated as such. If Arsenal fans were doing that after we won a game we'd all be embarrassed by them. If another English clubs fans did that we'd criticise them.

Well, honestly I'm with Capi on this one. There are degrees and I'm not sure there needs to be moral outrage at every single indiscretion.

Also, you've singled out one nationality here. I really don't think what you've highlighted is any different from pretty much every other nation.

Ray

invisibleman18 wrote:
Ray wrote:
If England beat the likes of Argentina, Spain, Brazil, Germany, France, Italy on their way then I would say they fully deserve to win, but beating the likes of Tunisia, Panama, Columbia, Sweden and then singing like “its coming home” is annoying.

The team is good but lacks world class individuals.

Can only beat who gets through surely. How did Argentina, Spain, Germany and Italy go in their quarter finals? Did any of them get bundled out by opposition any better than who England have played?

I’m just saying it’s annoying. As though reaching the semi final is some sort of major accomplishment after beating the mentioned teams and avoiding Brazil. I would understand the hysteria and say it was deserved if we beat the big teams to get to semi final.

Coombs

What hysteria? If there is any (certainly none on here), then it's because England might win, not because they are the greatest team to ever play the game. And, incidentally, they'd be right. England might win, and that chance has gotten exponentially higher, which has made people excited. Who cares who they played to get there? Just sour grapes.

Ray

Coombs wrote:
What hysteria? If there is any (certainly none on here), then it's because England might win, not because they are the greatest team to ever play the game. And, incidentally, they'd be right. England might win, and that chance has gotten exponentially higher, which has made people excited. Who cares who they played to get there? Just sour grapes.

Sour grapes for what?

lorddulaarsenal

Tarring English fans with a broad brush based on the minority isn’t cool. People opening up their rain macs to reveal loads of eels coming out their tummy

lorddulaarsenal

Exactly Coombs - nothing wrong with getting excited by being in the semi final of a World Cup.

GooneriC

Pity this England side is so Spursy, but other than that fair play to them if they go on to win it.

jones

Don Pacifico wrote:
jones wrote:
Why? It's the same sport after all. Feel free to make that distinction for yourself but why should others make it?

Same sport but not the same competition - Arsenal can't win the World Cup.

If you can't divorce international loyalties from club loyalties then I guess you're only watching the World Cup from an academic/intellectual perspective, which for my money isn't the most fun way to enjoy sports.

Out of interest, do you dislike the German team because they're are so many Bayern players in most squads?

Yes that's one of the biggest reasons I have no love for any German team I've seen. The idea that I should cheer on the same smug self righteous bellends completely devoid of any humility just because they're wearing a different shirt is ridiculous to me. Also I despise the rampant ugly nationalism that flares up everywhere whenever there's international footy on but I guess that's just me. There's some comfort in knowing it'll never happen as I'd probably have to rethink my loyalties if the Sun or its German equivalents started "cheering" on my team as obnoxious as they do.

Regarding your first paragraph about watching the WC for "academic reasons" I think you have it the wrong way. I've been into football since literally I can think, my love for the sport long predates me supporting Arsenal or my hometown club and while I don't have the time I used to have I still occasionally try to watch local and regional leagues every now and then. I don't need to divorce any loyalties or to have any in the first place to enjoy a football match.

Jed

arsedoc md wrote:
All this thread needs for English supporters to turn against is the Lingard dance gif. If anyone were still interested in supporting them after that, then it's just a dire situation beyond help.

Did you stop supporting Arsenal after watching Adebayor and Eboue doing their goal celebration dances?

Don Pacifico

jones wrote:
Don Pacifico wrote:
Same sport but not the same competition - Arsenal can't win the World Cup.

If you can't divorce international loyalties from club loyalties then I guess you're only watching the World Cup from an academic/intellectual perspective, which for my money isn't the most fun way to enjoy sports.

Out of interest, do you dislike the German team because they're are so many Bayern players in most squads?

Yes that's one of the biggest reasons I have no love for any German team I've seen. The idea that I should cheer on the same smug self righteous bellends completely devoid of any humility just because they're wearing a different shirt is ridiculous to me. Also I despise the rampant ugly nationalism that flares up everywhere whenever there's international footy on but I guess that's just me. There's some comfort in knowing it'll never happen as I'd probably have to rethink my loyalties if the Sun or its German equivalents started "cheering" on my team as obnoxious as they do.

Regarding your first paragraph about watching the WC for "academic reasons" I think you have it the wrong way. I've been into football since literally I can think, my love for the sport long predates me supporting Arsenal or my hometown club and while I don't have the time I used to have I still occasionally try to watch local and regional leagues every now and then. I don't need to divorce any loyalties or to have any in the first place to enjoy a football match.

On your first point, I'd agree with you regarding not wanting to see jingoism/xenophobia develop from footballing performances but then I guess you'd end up disliking all international teams for that reason...? My support of the England team does not personally foster any nationalistic sentiment (in fact, since Brexit I'd describe myself as a Londoner over being English/British) but nevertheless, I'll support my country. And I guess, I'm not clear on why England are getting singled out for this criticism over other nations.

On your second point, what you're describing is what I'd term 'academic/intellectual' interest in football. You enjoy it without having partisan interest. Personally, I can't get motivated by sports unless I have a vested/emotional interest. So I guess that's where we differ.

arsedocmd

Jed wrote:
arsedoc md wrote:
All this thread needs for English supporters to turn against is the Lingard dance gif. If anyone were still interested in supporting them after that, then it's just a dire situation beyond help.

Did you stop supporting Arsenal after watching Adebayor and Eboue doing their goal celebration dances?

no comparison. Lingard's dance is ..barf.

I'm just trying to keep it light Jed, take it easy.

invisibleman18

Imagine if we had stuck with Allardyce. Probably still would have had Rooney in the team and not made it out the group.

goon

Yeah, Allardici would have been unbearable. Who knew those shitty sting operations would actually do some good.

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