goon wrote:

Mirth wrote:

Tbf Jesus does exactly all those things in a City shirt. In general it looks like a lot of these City players have underperformed for their country which, in a way, is a compliment to Guardiola's coaching style.

Does he? Scored 13 goals in a team that scored 106 goals. 

Yes, but Jesus was ahead of Aguero at the start of the season - he subsequently got injured and still managed 13 goals in 29 premier league games, a portion of which were off the bench. Overall his record at City is 24 goals in 53 games which is pretty good given that he's had two big injuries while at City.

Also his record for Brazil - now that I've gone and checked - is also decent, he's got 10 goals in 20 games.

Not denying all that, and I don't think there would be much of an issue 'hype' if folks described him as a decent/pretty good striker/talent.

Personally think Brazil would get far more out of Neymar, Coutinho and Willian if they were to start Firmino. That seems like a better attack than what we've seen with Jesus, who has been largely a passenger.

goon wrote:

Not denying all that, and I don't think there would be much of an issue 'hype' if folks described him as a decent/pretty good striker/talent.

Been saying it for months. He has potential but right now he's so far from a top striker. And he looked pretty ordinary for City too. There were games where Sterling started ahead of him at CF so Pep isn't all in on him either.

MistaT wrote:

Personally think Brazil would get far more out of Neymar, Coutinho and Willian if they were to start Firmino. That seems like a better attack than what we've seen with Jesus, who has been largely a passenger.

Definitely. Firminhos link play is way above Jesus.

Qwiss! wrote:

goon wrote:

Not denying all that, and I don't think there would be much of an issue 'hype' if folks described him as a decent/pretty good striker/talent.

Been saying it for months. He has potential but right now he's so far from a top striker. And he looked pretty ordinary for City too. There were games where Sterling started ahead of him at CF so Pep isn't all in on him either.

I remember people saying he was on the same level as Mbappé. Bonkers.

Neymar is such a monumental twat, makes it impossible to like this Brazil team. Absolutely embarrassing behaviour.

Can't stand the twerp.

Wife's from Brazil and even she cannot understand why Neymar behaves the way he does. He doesn't need to do it, never saw the likes of Romario, Ronaldo or Ronaldinho carry on like that. Agree with the G.Jesus commentary, a lightweight who hasn't done much alone up front. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Firmino started instead but they've kept winning with the current set up and as such we'll probably see it continue.

Is it really that hard to understand? The guy is a lightweight and easily the most fouled player in the world. Just last World Cup he literally had his back broken on the pitch. You don't have to like it but for a scrawny kid who's been kicked around the pitch for like a decade now by men twice his weight he probably doesn't care much what people think about him and I think most people will know by now that refs are blind to even the worst tackles unless the player makes the most of it.

Neymar has to be trolling surely. Has to be.

@[deleted]: you have to admit that was a bit much even for “making the most of it.”

Yes it was. However forgive me for thinking the bigger issue here than the anaemic 140 pound kid rolling around the pitch whenever he's taken down is said guy being fouled 13 times in the first game of this World Cup alone or being stamped on by Layun without any repercussions for the latter. Figures that prehistoric ogres like Martin O'Neill would find so much joy tearing into him, you really have to admire the self righteous indignation these cavemen feel when they do.

The Neymar debate is unnecessarily polarized I think. Truth is somewhere in the middle this time, and the real culprits are ambiguity in the rules of the game, inconsistencies in officiating, and a strong dose of hypocrisy on all sides, including Neymar. He plays for a foul, gets fouled, and then complains about it. That shouldn't mean you have to get assaulted on the pitch, but it also doesn't mean you are hard done by everytime you get tripped up.

Neymar is a total embarrassment with his reactions but my word I had no idea just how special a footballer the guy is until this World Cup.

I'm always amused by how much people are turned off by the 'playacting' in football. If you have been hit, and you roll around a bit in agony, it's fine. I have no problem with it. Might find it amusing even.

What I have a problem with is cheating. People who go down when there is no contact or people who go out looking to maim others, handle the ball deliberately.
We spend too little time talking about this. I think it has something to do with masculinity. We find the rolling around more of an affront on masculinity than we find the cheating an affront on honor.

He's the most fouled player cos that's how he plays. He stands there showing the ball inviting the defender to commit so he can change direction and get past. That's his thing most of the time. Of course he's gonna get fouled. Wilshere has a bit similar style.
That's also not related to this rolling around business. That's just idiocy, plain and simple. Especially the incident yesterday.

His playing style is not forcing opposition coaches to appoint players like Behrami to follow Neymar everywhere on the pitch kicking lumps out of him. He's just extremely dangerous on the ball and probably the best dribbler in the world, teams wouldn't give fouls away if they were good enough to get the ball off him, honestly it's ridiculous to blame him for that.

Claude mentions a good point many of these odious pundits are blatantly guided by their toxic alleged masculinity when they lay into him. The most hated players in world football should be assholes like Pepe Charlie Adam or Paul Scholes not Neymar. Even if you looked just at divers there are many far worse around than him even if he embellishes contact he rarely outright simulates contact the likes of Suarez or Harry Kane are far worse in that aspect.

I'd just issue yellow cards to both. Saying that other players are worse doesn't mitigate the issue, it's just whataboutism.

Forget pundits for a moment, people are extremely critical of tough tackling footballers these days like Pepe or Adam or even Ramos these days. Watch a match from 01/02 and have a look at some of the tackles that were flying about in the Premier league and compare that today. There has been progress made behind the scenes in reducing the number of leg breakers that were considered 'normal' and no doubt that's a trend that will continue as football gets more technology focused.

But that's all beside the point, Neymar yesterday was worthy of condemnation. Rolling around and trying to get your opposition sent off and putting pressure on the referee is pretty fucking low as far as I'm concerned. That is just as bad as a deliberate handball or diving for a penalty. Sure, it's not as bad as a leg breaking tackle but it's not a million miles off either. And, I don't know about you, but Neymar is also likely to simulate contact when there is none as much as Suarez or Robben or Harry Kane - the game against Costa Rica is proof of that.

Also there are plenty of exceptional dribblers who are lightweight and attract tackles that don't roll around quite as much. There's being light on your feet and then there's this.