jones wrote:I don't think stats titles or anything else can back that claim up. I don't even think anyone except for himself would think of him talking about the most complete attacker around, actually I'm pretty sure most would think of someone else.
Yeah but he has so many qualities as a footballer and a performer.
Pele thinks he's the shit as well.
Ronaldo would be crawling on the ground half the game if he had as much contact as messi gets.
Tony Montana wrote:Bold Tone wrote:I've disliked CRonaldo's from his manu dives against us.
Credit due as he was amazing against Spain but no way more likeable to me.
It's also impressive how he continually improved his diving technique over the years.
Messi wasn't bad either.
Most attackers dive.
If you say that all players who have ever dived are equal divers, then I guess you have a point.
Every other player is an amateur compared to CRonaldo who has diving manuals all over yt.
I only posted volume one and his hollywood-standard ("Even at 5-nil up ...") masterpiece from an incredible variety of choices.
Quincy Abeyie wrote:Tony Montana wrote:Messi wasn't bad either.
Most attackers dive.
If you say that all players who have ever dived are equal divers, then I guess you have a point.
No but where do you draw the line? Surely it's the principle.
It's quite clear most attackers dive more than once in a campaign let alone their careers.
Oh you only dived once to win a penalty to win the game to win the trophy so it's fine. However the other guy dived five times so he can do one.
Bold Tone wrote:Every other player is an amateur compared to CRonaldo who has diving manuals all over yt.
I only posted volume one and his hollywood-standard ("Even at 5-nil up ...") masterpiece from an incredible variety of choices.
Nah that's rubbish.
Best player I’ve seen. And the way he has evolved his game across three countries is remarkable. He doesn’t have the magic in his boots of a Ronaldinho, but his overall ability, productivity, and versatility has been remarkable.
He’s also really turned it on in the last 3-4 years, when many would expect his powers to be waning.
Tony Montana wrote:jones wrote:What about his character is likeable?
Fight, passion, determination, style, confidence and hard working nature.
He might not be as quiet or "humble" as Messi but he's just as likeable to me.
The problem is non of that comes across as being for the team, it's all for him.
I mean there's a few occasions where he ranges from complete disinterest to fury when someone else other than him scores for Madrid. Then you have all his comments with regards to his individual accolades, his comments after winning the CL this year etc. Now, it's probably part of what makes him so good, and a lot of top players have this element about them too, but it doesn't change the fact that it makes him come across as a real prick.
And if all that doesn't sway you, he's prominent former United player. Ugh.
I'm pretty sure that's a plus in Tony's book.
Disgusting cheating diver trumps it all for me tbh.
jones wrote:I'm pretty sure that's a plus in Tony's book.
No.
His football and will to win/score is a plus.
Meanwhile in your words we've gotta love Materazzi despite some of the cynical and dangerous and sneaky challenges he had made throughout his career.
It's all swings and roundabouts really.
goon wrote:Tony Montana wrote:Fight, passion, determination, style, confidence and hard working nature.
He might not be as quiet or "humble" as Messi but he's just as likeable to me.
The problem is non of that comes across as being for the team, it's all for him.
I mean there's a few occasions where he ranges from complete disinterest to fury when someone else other than him scores for Madrid. Then you have all his comments with regards to his individual accolades, his comments after winning the CL this year etc. Now, it's probably part of what makes him so good, and a lot of top players have this element about them too, but it doesn't change the fact that it makes him come across as a real prick.
And if all that doesn't sway you, he's prominent former United player. Ugh.
I don't see as much hate for Muhammad Ali who made comments such as the below:
"I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was".
Ronaldo doesn't just say that he's the best football player though, he literally says that he's the best at all aspects of football. 
Tony Montana wrote:jones wrote:I'm pretty sure that's a plus in Tony's book.
No.
His football and will to win/score is a plus.
Meanwhile in your words we've gotta love Materazzi despite some of the cynical and dangerous and sneaky challenges he had made throughout his career.
In Jonesy's defence, I was the one who said "gotta love Materazzi" Tone. Jones as I recall it said he was human garbage.
I agree with you on Ronaldo for what it's worth. The only type of player I won't tolerate is the Joey Barton kind who should've been in jail and/or counseling for psychotic behaviour both on and off the pitch. The rest are just doing amateur theatre in front of the cameras. Zlatan is playing a character every time he's on the screen. I imagine the same is true for Ronaldo to a large extent.
On the subject of diving and cheating, it's not nice of course, but people have to factor in the other perspective too. Ronaldo is one of the most fouled players in the world. For every dive there are three hard tackles that go unpunished. Two wrongs don't make one right, but until football starts to deal with these issues properly there's always going to be another side to the story. People never forgave Maradona for scoring with his hands, but they rarely mention him being in Guinness Book of World Records as the most fouled football player of all time.
Klaus wrote:Tony Montana wrote:No.
His football and will to win/score is a plus.
Meanwhile in your words we've gotta love Materazzi despite some of the cynical and dangerous and sneaky challenges he had made throughout his career.
In Jonesy's defence, I was the one who said "gotta love Materazzi" Tone. Jones as I recall it said he was human garbage.
I agree with you on Ronaldo for what it's worth. The only type of player I won't tolerate is the Joey Barton kind who should've been in jail and/or counseling for psychotic behaviour both on and off the pitch. The rest are just doing amateur theatre in front of the cameras. Zlatan is playing a character every time he's on the screen. I imagine the same is true for Ronaldo to a large extent.
Agreed regarding Zlatan, not about Ronaldo though. Everything he does points to him not playing a role but being genuinely in love with himself. I must have linked this clip dozens of times but anyway
He's an amazing player and a complete prick. Not sure why that seems to cause cognitive dissonance in some but it's possible to be both.
Jed wrote:goon wrote:The problem is non of that comes across as being for the team, it's all for him.
I mean there's a few occasions where he ranges from complete disinterest to fury when someone else other than him scores for Madrid. Then you have all his comments with regards to his individual accolades, his comments after winning the CL this year etc. Now, it's probably part of what makes him so good, and a lot of top players have this element about them too, but it doesn't change the fact that it makes him come across as a real prick.
And if all that doesn't sway you, he's prominent former United player. Ugh.
I don't see as much hate for Muhammad Ali who made comments such as the below:
"I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was".
I’ve not said anything about him praising himself. Aside from that, boxing isn’t a team sport unlike football, which is the entire basis for my criticism.
Jed wrote:goon wrote:The problem is non of that comes across as being for the team, it's all for him.
I mean there's a few occasions where he ranges from complete disinterest to fury when someone else other than him scores for Madrid. Then you have all his comments with regards to his individual accolades, his comments after winning the CL this year etc. Now, it's probably part of what makes him so good, and a lot of top players have this element about them too, but it doesn't change the fact that it makes him come across as a real prick.
And if all that doesn't sway you, he's prominent former United player. Ugh.
I don't see as much hate for Muhammad Ali who made comments such as the below:
"I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was".
Is that really so hard to understand? That quote already shows that Ali did always throw some humour some even selfdeprecating into his megalomania while Ronaldo gives dead serious interviews making claims which are a lot more arguable than Ali's. Then of course there's the little fact that one believed in something other than his own personal glory and gave up his prime years and his freedom for it while Ronaldo wouldn't even give up a goal to a team mate who hadn't scored in years
Klaus wrote:Tony Montana wrote:No.
His football and will to win/score is a plus.
Meanwhile in your words we've gotta love Materazzi despite some of the cynical and dangerous and sneaky challenges he had made throughout his career.
Ronaldo is one of the most fouled players in the world.
That's just statistically wrong - maybe you're thinking of his United years when he was a dribler. Last season he was the 218th most fouled player in La Liga. He was fouled 18 times, while the most fouled was Munir with 114. Messi was fouled 80 times. Players like Ronaldo who rarely drible aren't really fouled much.
18 times is insane. Neymar was fouled 11 times in today's game alone
“There are players for some matches, there are players for every matches and there are players for special matches,”
“And the players for special matches are the ones.”
jones wrote:Jed wrote:I don't see as much hate for Muhammad Ali who made comments such as the below:
"I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was".
Is that really so hard to understand? That quote already shows that Ali did always throw some humour some even selfdeprecating into his megalomania while Ronaldo gives dead serious interviews making claims which are a lot more arguable than Ali's. Then of course there's the little fact that one believed in something other than his own personal glory and gave up his prime years and his freedom for it while Ronaldo wouldn't even give up a goal to a team mate who hadn't scored in years
Of course Ronaldo is motivated by personal glory but since his selfishness is helping his teams towards success I'm sure his team-mates aren't complaining. Other than that, all of the best players have had a degree of arrogance to their personality. I don't see what the big deal is.
Zlatan is much worse with it and yet everyone admires him for it. Humor may be your interpretation of it in his case but others could just as easily see it as a display of arrogance.
I don't think Zlatan is worse - he's completely self aware of his image
Klaus wrote:Tony Montana wrote:No.
His football and will to win/score is a plus.
Meanwhile in your words we've gotta love Materazzi despite some of the cynical and dangerous and sneaky challenges he had made throughout his career.
In Jonesy's defence, I was the one who said "gotta love Materazzi" Tone. Jones as I recall it said he was human garbage.
I agree with you on Ronaldo for what it's worth. The only type of player I won't tolerate is the Joey Barton kind who should've been in jail and/or counseling for psychotic behaviour both on and off the pitch. The rest are just doing amateur theatre in front of the cameras. Zlatan is playing a character every time he's on the screen. I imagine the same is true for Ronaldo to a large extent.
On the subject of diving and cheating, it's not nice of course, but people have to factor in the other perspective too. Ronaldo is one of the most fouled players in the world. For every dive there are three hard tackles that go unpunished. Two wrongs don't make one right, but until football starts to deal with these issues properly there's always going to be another side to the story. People never forgave Maradona for scoring with his hands, but they rarely mention him being in Guinness Book of World Records as the most fouled football player of all time.
How about tax fraud? That's much worse than whatever he does on the pitch in my eyes. Applies to Messi too of course.
Mirth wrote:I don't think Zlatan is worse - he's completely self aware of his image
So is Ronaldo.
Jed wrote:jones wrote:Is that really so hard to understand? That quote already shows that Ali did always throw some humour some even selfdeprecating into his megalomania while Ronaldo gives dead serious interviews making claims which are a lot more arguable than Ali's. Then of course there's the little fact that one believed in something other than his own personal glory and gave up his prime years and his freedom for it while Ronaldo wouldn't even give up a goal to a team mate who hadn't scored in years
Of course Ronaldo is motivated by personal glory but since his selfishness is helping his teams towards success I'm sure his team-mates aren't complaining. Other than that, all of the best players have had a degree of arrogance to their personality. I don't see what the big deal is.
Zlatan is much worse with it and yet everyone admires him for it. Humor may be your interpretation of it in his case but others could just as easily see it as a display of arrogance.
Why move the goalposts again? It doesn't matter what his team mates think even if it did none of us would know anyway players don't go to the media to tell them their team mates are idiots. He gives ridiculous interviews with not an iota of self awareness, he's visibly frustrated about his team mate scoring ahead of him and now again the Zlatan comparison, I'm starting to wonder if theres anything he could do that would make people back off him a bit
Tony Montana wrote:Mirth wrote:I don't think Zlatan is worse - he's completely self aware of his image
So is Ronaldo.
Nah
jones wrote:Klaus wrote:In Jonesy's defence, I was the one who said "gotta love Materazzi" Tone. Jones as I recall it said he was human garbage.
I agree with you on Ronaldo for what it's worth. The only type of player I won't tolerate is the Joey Barton kind who should've been in jail and/or counseling for psychotic behaviour both on and off the pitch. The rest are just doing amateur theatre in front of the cameras. Zlatan is playing a character every time he's on the screen. I imagine the same is true for Ronaldo to a large extent.
Agreed regarding Zlatan, not about Ronaldo though. Everything he does points to him not playing a role but being genuinely in love with himself. I must have linked this clip dozens of times but anyway
He's an amazing player and a complete prick. Not sure why that seems to cause cognitive dissonance in some but it's possible to be both.
Firstly I apologise for misquoting you.
But I don't think it's impossible to be both.
However I believe that he's an amazing player and a great character to reach the level of achievement he had reached. Perhaps we should agree to disagree.
Mirth wrote:Tony Montana wrote:So is Ronaldo.
Nah
Well we're in neithers brain so really my take is as valid as yours.
Quincy Abeyie wrote:Klaus wrote:Ronaldo is one of the most fouled players in the world.
That's just statistically wrong - maybe you're thinking of his United years when he was a dribler. Last season he was the 218th most fouled player in La Liga. He was fouled 18 times, while the most fouled was Munir with 114. Messi was fouled 80 times. Players like Ronaldo who rarely drible aren't really fouled much.
Hmm, maybe I am. Cheers Quincy. I'll retract that comment about Ronaldo and instead modify the point a bit then: There are extremes in football, and in an unchecked environment they're always going to be part of the game of gaining advantages. We can still criticise the behaviour but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. I don't like diving any more than I like illegal tackles, but I do think the sport would be extremely poorer without many of the players who have put into system to do things that aren't allowed and get away with it. My own memories of football would be worse. If Pires hadn't taken that dive against Pompey there would be no Invinvcibles run. That's not condining diving, but I also remember those talentless ogres kicking the shit out of us every time the referee had his back turned.
Tony Montana wrote:Mirth wrote:Nah
Well we're in neithers brain so really my take is as valid as yours.
I don't really mind Ronaldo - he's a bit of a prick but so are most successful sports personalities including Federer and Messi. I would argue that Ronaldo goes further than most though but I don't care enough either way to contradict your extremely passionate defence of the man.
Gurgen wrote:How about tax fraud? That's much worse than whatever he does on the pitch in my eyes. Applies to Messi too of course.
Good point. It is, and I think they should both have done hard time for it. They did get punished in accordance with spanish law though, which I think I've read is more lenient to first-time offenders in non-violent cases.
Totally agree Klaus. I wouldn't have gaf if we had won the CL in 2006 as a result of the Eboue dive. I've always felt diving gets a disproportionate amount of hate, and if we're going to punish that retrospectively then bad tackles should get the same treatment.
Mirth wrote:Tony Montana wrote:Well we're in neithers brain so really my take is as valid as yours.
I don't really mind Ronaldo - he's a bit of a prick but so are most successful sports personalities including Federer and Messi. I would argue that Ronaldo goes further than most though but I don't care enough either way to contradict your extremely passionate defence of the man.
It's a defence in a debate. That's what it is.
I'm just as passionate as people who call him self-centred pricks and state their hate for him.
Let's not pretend that Jones is somehow blase about this but somehow I am going out of my way to make arguments.
I think the difference between us is that I give evidence or examples for my opinion while you just keep on repeating yours. That will always make you look a lot more zealous in your defence of his.
Yeah, 2 pages of argument and I haven't seen a single evidence of "great character" while theres literally one thousand reasons to hate that prick.
Unless you’re misusing the word deliberately or otherwise, you should know that isn’t true. And that already shows me you are strongly biased against him.
Yes, he exaggerates contact and dives. Yes he is obsessed with personal glory. Yes, he is not a perfect human being. I’m not either, and I’m guessing only goon would claim to be.
I see a man with incredible self discipline, and incomparable will power, who has managed to insert himself firmly into a conversation about the GOAT in football though he arguably has less natural talent than his rivals - past and present. Personally I find that very inspirational. Those aren’t qualities people are born with so it speaks loads to the character of the man.
You know me so well flobs :**)
Those are not characteristics that generally make me like someone though. Would you like a greedy corporate tycoon who displayed the same traits? Should everyone like Floyd Mayweather? Not for me.
Clrnc wrote:Yeah, 2 pages of argument and I haven't seen a single evidence of "great character" while theres literally one thousand reasons to hate that prick.
I may be missing something here as I haven't been following that closely....but are you talking about Ronaldo?
If so, yes, there's plenty of "evidence" he's a dick.
But there's also plenty of "evidence" he also has (great) character.
I'm pretty sure a good chunk of those claims are wrong. The Nepal 5m donation at least was definitely confirmed to be fake, pretty sure most if not all of the Palestine donations are made up as well. I also remember Chicharito calling out media reports about some fake Ronaldo donation to Mexico after the earthquakes there a year ago
Not to say he isn't charitable at all mind, most donation stories however seem to be very dodgy
I'm with you on this, t-bone.
Ronaldo entertains me, and I do find his sheer will to win, for whoever's sake (his own, obviously) fascinating and exciting to watch. When I hate him, I love to hate him. Honestly, he doesn't rub me the wrong way as much as I sometimes think he does. When I actually watch a football match that he's playing in, especially in the drab affairs of international footy, he lights it up.
