Claudius wrote:

On Liverpool. Same league finish, but they have added a Champions League final to it. So the fans have good reason to be excited. They'll need to add about 6-10 points to that total to show progress this year, but they are definitely moving in the right direction.

That extra 6-10 points is incredibly tough to attain though. Logically you'd have thought adding Salah and van Dijk would have got them at least half way there and yet they've ended up losing a point. 

That being said, with the right additions this summer they'd definitely look like the ones in the best position to challenge City next season.

They're looking good now but so did Dortmund under Klopp for a good while. I'd wait until the first wave of injuries hits them before talking them up, Klopps style is toxic on muscles tendons and joints his former players are still feeling the effects to this day.

They can't play if they don't dominate and they fail to dominate too often--especially away from home--to put together an 85+ point season.

I don't see them improving next season unless they have a much better defence and more efficient forwards. Klopp is just too one dimensional in his tactical approach in my opinion.

Hasn't their defence improved since van Djik joined them?

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

Rohit wrote:

Liverpool have done really well to reach the CL Final. In the League though, they finished with one less point than the previous season, scoring 6 more and conceding 4 less. This whilst having the best player in the League.

Don't think you should look too much into points last season versus this one. It's clear as day when watching Liverpool that they've gotten better, that's why they're positive. They stopped prioritizing the league more and more the further they got in the Champions League, and barely had midfielders to play in the last few matches.

If Liverpool really get Fekir in addition to Keita and don't sell Salah, it'll be Tottenham, us and Chelsea in a fight for fourth.

They had 35 points from the first 19 games and 40 from the other 19. They had 34 points in 2018 from 17 matches, not less than their average. They were in a fight for 4th till the last game so don't think they could prioritize as much as they wanted to. I don't deny that they have a very good base to build on but this run in the CL may be presenting them in much better light. Great for them if they win, which I think they will, but if they don't, they would have had less points than the previous season, gone out early from the domestic cups and not won in Europe either. Despite that final what would their season then look like?

All I am saying is, given that they had a player up top who had one of the best ever seasons for a player in his position in the League in history, they haven't improved upon their previous showing. 

Rohit wrote:

Arsenal were worse than last season and Liverpool weren't much better than last season despite having the best player in the League. They were up against a record breaking City side and had no chance at the title but to imagine that they would improve on their points total when up against the rest of the PL isn't very unreasonable.

Arsenal's inadequacies which everyone is aware of, the lack of two more quality players being one of them indeed,  need not be brought up when pointing to the overestimation of other clubs. I wish you'd do the opposite sometimes.

Comparing and contrasting helps to put things in perspective.

Rohit wrote:

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

Don't think you should look too much into points last season versus this one. It's clear as day when watching Liverpool that they've gotten better, that's why they're positive. They stopped prioritizing the league more and more the further they got in the Champions League, and barely had midfielders to play in the last few matches.

If Liverpool really get Fekir in addition to Keita and don't sell Salah, it'll be Tottenham, us and Chelsea in a fight for fourth.

They had 35 points from the first 19 games and 40 from the other 19. They had 34 points in 2018 from 17 matches. That's what they averaged. I don't deny that they have a very good base to build on but this run in the CL may be presenting them in much better light. Great for them if they win, which I think they will, but if they don't, they would have had less points than the previous season, gone out early from the domestic cups and not won in Europe either. Despite that final what would their season then look like?

All I am saying is, given that they had a player up top who had one of the best ever seasons for a player in his position in the League in history, they haven't improved upon their previous showing. 

It's because footy is a team game.

That's why Inter, PSV and Barça didn't win the league with Ronaldo.

I didn't expect them to win the League.

Rohit wrote:

I didn't expect them to win the League.

Sure but Ronaldo was the best player in the world at the time. By your logic his teams should have done better and potentially won the league.

Salahs the best player in the League this year and Liverpool finish in 4th. It doesn't naturally correlate that they finish higher because of his season.

In my opinion it does, else why would clubs chase better players? There weren't whole sale changes at Liverpool. They kept their squad and added a top class player to it only to not improve on their points total. I would be quite bemused if Arsenal signed the to be best player in the League whilst keeping the same squad and yet not amass more points. I think you would point fingers at the Arsenal manager if that happened too. Rules for Arsenal sure are different.

You can keep harping on position too when I speak of points.

Since when does Liverpool points total in comparison to last year of any importance? From Feb onwards it is painfully clear they only had eyes for the UCL and couldn't be more bothered about the league as they are comfortably in top 4 and can't win the league anyway.

I would gladly take the season they are having now over at least 10 other seasons we had under Wenger. Making the UCL final is no mean feat and winning it will be massive, better than winning the PL. Some of the matches they played this season, the brand of football and the manner they won it is impressive and that is why they had so much praise. An average squad too mind you.

I would be so pissed if they get Fekir. I seldom want us to sign a player so much, he is borderline world class already.

Clrnc wrote:

Since when does Liverpool points total in comparison to last year of any importance? From Feb onwards it is painfully clear they only had eyes for the UCL and couldn't be more bothered about the league as they are comfortably in top 4 and can't win the league anyway.

Conveniently unimportant now when it's been used to judge Wenger and Arsenal season on season. Not been painfully clear to me either when it went till the last League game.

I would take a season in which we made the CL final too regardless of if there was any improvement on the previous season in the League. I feel there are different standards for other clubs though. They are good on the eye but so were we in a number of seasons when in the League there was no discernible improvement. Their improvement with the terrific football seen in terms of output was 6 more goals than the previous season. Sorry but the previous season doesn't matter.

If Klopp is at Liverpool for 22 years and is having an average season like this, coupled with getting some extremely terrible away form and big match performances over his last few seasons he would be judged as critically as well.

The fact that Liverpool shows more ambitions in the transfer market, tries some different things to be successful lets them off a little in the media eyes. Big matches counts for a lot as well and when you see some of their performances over the past 3 years under Klopp it's not tough to understand why it is positive at their end and negative at our end.

Anyway, I thought the original point is that after buying Van Djik and having the best player in the league they are not impressive? That was what I was perplex about, given that they pretty much played fringe players over their last 8 matches that 1 point less this season is a crap argument.

Okay

I can't wait to see Liverpool get smashed now.

How you can compare points between seasons as the sole yardsticks for their season performances , i cant understand.

Liverpool and Spurs get leeway because a large part of the British media support both teams. Nothing more, nothing less.

Rohit wrote:

In my opinion it does, else why would clubs chase better players? There weren't whole sale changes at Liverpool. They kept their squad and added a top class player to it only to not improve on their points total. I would be quite bemused if Arsenal signed the to be best player in the League whilst keeping the same squad and yet not amass more points. I think you would point fingers at the Arsenal manager if that happened too. Rules for Arsenal sure are different.

You can keep harping on position too when I speak of points.

Yes they bought better players to improve points position (and remain in the CL) but also to win trophies. They could very well do that on Saturday. And in general you need a squad of top players to win the league, not just one brilliant world class player. That's why I mentioned Ronaldo. I wouldn't be surprised if he got 70 odd points in his teams and finish 3rd or 4th.

Liverpool didn't buy Salah thinking he would score the most goals in the PL season ever. If he'd scored half what he did they'd have been happy I reckon.

And Arsenal signed Ozil and Sanchez and Cech and Auba and Laca and we are going backwards. Some of us have been criticising Wenger for almost a decade! It's obviously harder than it looks but Wenger is being criticised because he's been at the helm for 22 years. Klopp has been there 3 seasons.

Captain wrote:

Liverpool and Spurs get leeway because a large part of the British media support both teams. Nothing more, nothing less.

Spurs? No. And look at the piss taking Kane got.

Liverpool and United are more popular even amongst journalists. Arsenal have their support from the Observer/Guardian.