arsedoc md wrote:

How you can compare points between seasons as the sole yardsticks for their season performances , i cant understand.

And I still don't get why referencing previous season's points total to judge a team's progress and improvement in the League where quality of teams below really isn't very different is so shocking. It isn't the sole yardstick. It has been done for Arsenal a lot of times.

It's not shocking at all, Rohit.

Liverpool have added 4 starters to the team they had last season, whilst only losing one in Coutinho. It's not unreasonable to expect they would have improved on last season's league performance. In just about every metric they've stayed about the same.

Beating a good team to reach the final of what is only a cup competition after all, should not change the way in which their League performance is analysed.

We've criticised Wenger's performance in Europe in the past.

Rohit wrote:

Tony Montana wrote:

Some of us have been criticising Wenger for almost a decade! It's obviously harder than it looks but Wenger is being criticised because he's been at the helm for 22 years. Klopp has been there 3 seasons.

Yes. I know. Using this as one of the argument even a decade back when it had been only 12 years of his tenure filled with trophies and achievements.

Of course expectations were higher back then

Tony Montana wrote:

Captain wrote:

Liverpool and Spurs get leeway because a large part of the British media support both teams. Nothing more, nothing less.

Spurs? No. And look at the piss taking Kane got.

Liverpool and United are more popular even amongst journalists. Arsenal have their support from the Observer/Guardian.

It's a fact...

And as to your other point, Kane got smashed by other players, fans etc. press were out in full force to protect england's talisman.

The media loves Liverpool. A lot of folks in the media were either influenced by or played in those great 80s squads. It will wear out over the next 10 years.

Rohit wrote:

arsedoc md wrote:

How you can compare points between seasons as the sole yardsticks for their season performances , i cant understand.

And I still don't get why referencing previous season's points total to judge a team's progress and improvement in the League where quality of teams below really isn't very different is so shocking. It isn't the sole yardstick. It has been done for Arsenal a lot of times.

Pretty sure nobody cared how badly we were in the league when we were in the UCL final. Points total comparison really only came about after the 2010 season or so, when there were more Wenger out band and we keep sneaking into the top 4.

For me there should be no more excuses next season for Liverpool or Spurs. There teams have been lauded over this season, yet Spurs have won fuck all as usual, and we will see about Liverpool.

I have wanted Wenger gone since forever, but it is true, others seem to have a different metric when measuring them. If people are consistent, then next year should be put up or shut up. People keep harping on like they are great coaches, yet can’t put up a proper league challenge.

Let's face it.

If Liverpool or Spurs produce people will say they are lucky because rival clubs were not in a position to challenge etc.

Which people? No one has to face anything. Arsenal gets far more flak than any other club. No one called Spurs lucky when they finished second last season, nor when Liverpool botched their title bid. If anything there was nonsense about Tottenham being the best team in the League despite not winning the title.

Let's face it. Whatever Arsenal do will be looked at with askance by people.

People on this board.

There's a perception that because Arsenal are poor then everyone else is just as bad but lucky or just pure filthy rich and don't have much of a challenge. It's the same every season. And our success is only around the corner of course.

It's my observations of this board.

Your observations are that we feel success is just around the corner? It couldn't be further from what I've seen, most of us will be happy with playing good football and rejoining the top four at the time being.

I literally cannot think of a single person who’s come anywhere close to suggesting success is around the corner. If anything the suggestion from many is that we need 17 new players just to compete.

Clrnc wrote:

Rohit wrote:

And I still don't get why referencing previous season's points total to judge a team's progress and improvement in the League where quality of teams below really isn't very different is so shocking. It isn't the sole yardstick. It has been done for Arsenal a lot of times.

Pretty sure nobody cared how badly we were in the league when we were in the UCL final.

Maybe not on that particular day, but people were going mad that whole season over how unbelievably poor we were in the league. Everybody cared that we were close to missing out on the top four. The CL was the tiny piece of string that held that season together and stopped fans from rioting, not a crowning triumph. You were around back then Clarence; you should know better than to rewrite history.

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

Your observations are that we feel success is just around the corner? It couldn't be further from what I've seen, most of us will be happy with playing good football and rejoining the top four at the time being.

People do think we can challenge with a couple more astute signings. A couple of years ago that meant challenging for the title. Success now means finishing top four.

And the perception that everyone else is lucky and fundamentally crap or lucky and fundamentally rich is still true in my eyes. 

Tony Montana wrote:

People on this board.

There's a perception that because Arsenal are poor then everyone else is just as bad but lucky or just pure filthy rich and don't have much of a challenge. It's the same every season. And our success is only around the corner of course.

It's my observations of this board.

Your observations are way of the mark. Even if there is an excuse culture for Arsenal that exists on this board vis-a-vis competing clubs then so be it. It is an Arsenal forum full of ardent Arsenal fans and Arsenal pride. It's better than using one-off seasons by clubs like Liverpool and Tottenham to beat Arsenal with. 

In the Wenger era of 22 years, Arsenal has finished behind Liverpool only 6 times and behind Tottenham only twice. We have finished ahead of Liverpool and Tottenham in 16 and 20 seasons respectively of the 22 seasons that Arsene Wenger managed Arsenal. We finished ahead of Tottenham for 20 consecutive seasons. This while moving stadiums, taking a big debt to do so, and spending much less than both clubs in the transfer market. We qualified for the Champions League 19 times during Wenger's reign with the same restrictions, while Liverpool qualified only 10 times in the same period and Tottenham only thrice. We won three titles and 7 FA Cups while Liverpool and Tottenham combined won less trophies between them in this period - 1 CL, 1 UEFA Cup, 2 FA Cups and 5 League Cups, with Tottenham only winning 2 League Cups from that haul. Neither has won a trophy in over a decade. 

Considering the cyclical nature of sport, especially football, where resources aren't very dissimilar between clubs, we have been outstanding compared to these clubs. A few days back, Liverpool were being praised on this board for taking risks in the market by buying talented players which have paid off with the likes of Suarez and Salah, while Arsenal's risk aversion was being lamented. Arsenal got more players right than Liverpool and Tottenham while spending less than them over a very long period of time. Which is why we were much more consistent than them over 22 years, the lack of major trophies post 2004 notwithstanding. Neither Liverpool, nor Tottenham have anything to show from their multiple attempts in the second tier of European competition either, other than one UEFA Cup in 2001 for Pool and a final in 2016. 

Considering how poorly Arsenal are at times thought of compared to these efficient clubs, I can't imagine what the club would be perceived as if we changed managers every couple of years and still failed, spent money in the transfer market and still didn't compete for either title or CL spots, had to miss out on CL and compete in the second tier European competition every alternate year on an average and still didn't show success in it.

I know consistency like we have shown means very less for a lot of people without trophies to show for it. Those two clubs however have neither consistency, nor trophies to show for their efforts. Daniel Levy is hailed here for his negotiation skills and the current squad on a low budget, but no one will point out how he spent 100 Million of the Bale proceeds. We have got very little wrong compared to these clubs. It's nigh on impossible to not stumble when we are playing with low percentages and Arsenal has done extremely well to be where they are for as long as they have been. People hail Atletico and Dortmund. We did what they are doing now 20 years back. Let us see if they can go 20 years without stumbling themselves. 

Fuck Liverpool and fuck Tottenham.

Fuck United, Chelsea and City also while we are at it.

Some interesting managerial appointments / moves at other clubs. Obviously Pellegrini at West Ham. Favre to Dortmund - I know it's been in the works for a while, but I thought Stoger had a decent run with them (finished 4th after a horrible first 2 months where they won almost nothing), but the mood has clearly been against him since the day he took over - not sure why. Apparently Graham Potter is in the running to be the Swansea manager. Chelsea is the weird one though - Sarri seems to be the favourite - not sure he is the right fit for them - they feel more like a Mourinho / Conte type counter-attacking team than a Sarri-style setup, but supposedly Granovskaia has had discussions with him and she's happy with him. Feels like a lot of managerial turnover (or am I just focusing on it since we are in a manager search).

Great post Rohit. I really don't understand why Tony loves to praise our domestic opposition so much.

Indeed. I'm hoping this new start brings with it a more pro-Arsenal, anti-rivals mood to this place!

Anyway, Leverkusen have signed Hradecky to replace the departing Bernd Leno.
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Rumour is that it's between Arsenal and Napoli for Leno. Not sure whether I'd be that keen to be honest.

Edit--seems there are strong reports claiming Rui Patricio is about to sign for Napoli. Got to be a very good chance Leno ends up here methinks.