Lulz does it really? Very interesting, food for thought, perhaps these statistical systems do have something to offer …

Qwiss! wrote:
Meatwad wrote:

and emery wouldn't have the respect of his squad and let everyone know he can be walked over. he handled them the way they needed to be handled.

100% this. No way Ozil would be in his current form if he'd been molly coddled the way Wenger did with him.

This is not the first time Ozil has performed at this level for Arsenal. Wenger had a different managerial style and got a lot out of Ozil for prolonged periods and got him to work as hard if not harder. I am with Emery on how he has exerted his authority but it really is still to be seen if Ozil can reproduce this football consistently. If Ozil reverts to type then it doesn't really matter how he is managed, it's just on him and his personna.

Both Ozil and Ramsey are performing at a very high level, at the business end of the season. We are a dozen points ahead of last season. Can't fault this guy too much.

Rohit wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:

100% this. No way Ozil would be in his current form if he'd been molly coddled the way Wenger did with him.

This is not the first time Ozil has performed at this level for Arsenal. Wenger had a different managerial style and got a lot out of Ozil for prolonged periods and got him to work as hard if not harder. I am with Emery on how he has exerted his authority but it really is still to be seen if Ozil can reproduce this football consistently. If Ozil reverts to type then it doesn't really matter how he is managed, it's just on him and his personna.

in april though?

Meatwad wrote:
Rohit wrote:

This is not the first time Ozil has performed at this level for Arsenal. Wenger had a different managerial style and got a lot out of Ozil for prolonged periods and got him to work as hard if not harder. I am with Emery on how he has exerted his authority but it really is still to be seen if Ozil can reproduce this football consistently. If Ozil reverts to type then it doesn't really matter how he is managed, it's just on him and his personna.

in april though?

https://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20150504/ozil-is-vitality-player-of-the-month

we're going back 4 years now.

4 years ago was really peak Mesut.

Meatwad wrote:

we're going back 4 years now.

https://www.arsenal.com/news/mkhitaryan-march-player-month

Ozil finished second in April 2018's player of the month as well. I've google a few months late in the season (Feb-Apr) at random over the years and Ozil/Sanchez generally finished as one of our top three players fairly consistently but hey - a man's got to have an agenda to push.

This isn't about Emery vs Wenger. All I am saying is that it is too early to conclude that Emery's methods would have had a long term impact on Mesut. He has barely played this season so bringing his historical form at the fag end of the season doesn't make sense. Him working hard is encouraging but he was doing that on and off when moddy coddled too, and then appearing to relax as was his wont.

Mirth wrote:
Meatwad wrote:

we're going back 4 years now.

https://www.arsenal.com/news/mkhitaryan-march-player-month

Ozil finished second in April 2018's player of the month as well. I've google a few months late in the season (Feb-Apr) at random over the years and Ozil/Sanchez generally finished as one of our top three players fairly consistently but hey - a man's got to have an agenda to push.

Are we conflating performance with popularity?

Ozil is always going to be in no-man's land as far as his reputation goes.

He is a brilliantly talented player who often contributes well, but almost never consistently at what appears to be his peak capability.

He can't escape the fate of mixed reviews and nor should he expect to—until he stops being able to grease a pass like a slippery chip on oily butcher's paper, or he suddenly turns into a robotically high-functioning superstar.

As far as England is concerned, he is carrying too many years of bad reputation. It doesn't matter if he beasts it from now on, he'll always be seen as not being good enough. When watching matches I hear commentators criticising him a lot, and it's not always clear to me that they are criticising him with a clear frame of reference of what good should look like in his instance.

Rohit wrote:

This isn't about Emery vs Wenger. All I am saying is that it is too early to conclude that Emery's methods would have had a long term impact on Mesut. He has barely played this season so bringing his historical form at the fag end of the season doesn't make sense. Him working hard is encouraging but he was doing that on and off when moddy coddled too, and then appearing to relax as was his wont.

You are right that its yet to be seen if it'll be consistent from Ozil. He wasn't working this hard last season or at the start of this one though, thats why I give Emery credit. Ozil looked to have given up to me, he was waltzing through the season occasionally hitting a game or two of sparkly football but never much more. Now he's added a bit more work rate to his game and it means when he's not on top form to produce the sparkly football he isn't going missing as he so often did. Hopefully he can keep it up.

I couldn’t help but think as I was watching Ozil and Mkhittaryan ‘the reason we pay you guys half a million pounds a week is to do the unexpected when a team is down on its luck’. And nothing. The only time Ozil came to life is when he was flinging his jacket at Silva on the sideline. If only he’d had such passion and precision on the field.

He has been playing well of late but overall I’m still underwhelmed when I think of the salary. Does one jut suck it up and forget about the salary, or can he/we do better?

Well, we can never offload him for anything like what he earns with us.

Claudius wrote:

I couldn’t help but think as I was watching Ozil and Mkhittaryan ‘the reason we pay you guys half a million pounds a week is to do the unexpected when a team is down on its luck’. And nothing. The only time Ozil came to life is when he was flinging his jacket at Silva on the sideline. If only he’d had such passion and precision on the field.

He has been playing well of late but overall I’m still underwhelmed when I think of the salary. Does one jut suck it up and forget about the salary, or can he/we do better?

Yesterday is a prime example of what Ozil is and isn't. He's not like players like Hazard or Salah who can drag a mediocre team through a match. Putting him out with rubbish and expecting him to take responsibility is just asking for trouble. He's the sort of player who would look 10 times better if he played for someone like City but for a team like ours trying to scrap our way back into the CL spots he's just too flaky.

Yeah, I though the affect of Emery's way was being overstated. Marginalizing a super star is not going to change him at the age of 31. When the team around him isn't functioning, Ozil probably isn't the right player to provide a spark.

The talk of work rate aside, does anyone else think he has lost a bit ability too? He isn't as nimble footed, slightly slower on the turn and inconsistent with his passing even. He still moves off the ball between the lines better than any player we have and provides option and creativity, but obviously a full level lower than how he could.

Yep, people view Ozil as a passer of the ball but at one time he was up there with the best dribblers around. He's not as quick on his feet anymore, although I guess that's a function of age as much as anything else.