The Ozil Money Pit: Page 40 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Ozil Money Pit

Coombs

That's a load of nonsense if you ask me. The best players train, harder than most. That's how you get to be the best. Ozil is talented, but no longer a great footballer if you ask me, and I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the decision making around him at the moment. He's been ineffective in almost every game he's played this season, and it was a team built around him that failed to qualify for the CL multiple times. I don't care about his contract, when it comes right down to it. I'd rather cheer on Iwobi at this point than a lackadaisical, entitled, disinterested prima donna, no matter how talented.

If that makes me old fashioned or out of touch with the reality of football, I don't really care. If Ozil doesn't want to work hard to earn the shirt in every game and in every training session, then he shouldn't be on the pitch. There's more to football than that.

Mirth

Coombs wrote:
That's a load of nonsense if you ask me. The best players train, harder than most. That's how you get to be the best. Ozil is talented, but no longer a great footballer if you ask me, and I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the decision making around him at the moment. He's been ineffective in almost every game he's played this season, and it was a team built around him that failed to qualify for the CL multiple times. I don't care about his contract, when it comes right down to it. I'd rather cheer on Iwobi at this point than a lackadaisical, entitled, disinterested prima donna, no matter how talented.

If that makes me old fashioned or out of touch with the reality of football, I don't really care. If Ozil doesn't want to work hard to earn the shirt in every game and in every training session, then he shouldn't be on the pitch. There's more to football than that.

I don't have a problem with you not wanting to see Ozil because his perceived lack of effort but the bold bit is whole hearted revisionism.

Anwyay, falling out with key players six months into your new job usually ends up going only one way. Even if Emery is backed and eventually wins this battle (see: Pep vs Yaya), it'll cause plenty of toxicity around the club. This could have been handled so much better with both Ozil and Emery playing games in front of the world.

flobaba

@ Coombs... in Allen Iverson voice: “Training? You talking about training?!”

Claudius

“First, the key in his hands,” said Emery, who has blamed Özil’s absences on a mixture of minor injuries, poor performances and frequent bouts of unspecified illness. “He’s working very well this week and I asked him in our conversation to be consistent, to be available for training. I said that when you can train with us consistently you can help us with your best performance in the games.

“I think this week was good for all the players because we are in a big, important moment for the season. I am looking at him doing the training like we want. I know he wants that but he needs consistency, to be available for training and the matches without injuries, without being sick. Like that, I think we can see the best Mesut.”

When I read the comments as I above, I see nothing particularly critical from Emery, unless it is coded. It just reads like he’s sick a lot, if he can find health, he will play. The manager even indicates that Ozil wants to be there for training, suggesting that both men are frustrated by the training absences. So maybe we are just dealing with an injured/unfit player and not some dramatic standoff.

Coombs

Mirth wrote:
Coombs wrote:
That's a load of nonsense if you ask me. The best players train, harder than most. That's how you get to be the best. Ozil is talented, but no longer a great footballer if you ask me, and I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the decision making around him at the moment. He's been ineffective in almost every game he's played this season, and it was a team built around him that failed to qualify for the CL multiple times. I don't care about his contract, when it comes right down to it. I'd rather cheer on Iwobi at this point than a lackadaisical, entitled, disinterested prima donna, no matter how talented.

If that makes me old fashioned or out of touch with the reality of football, I don't really care. If Ozil doesn't want to work hard to earn the shirt in every game and in every training session, then he shouldn't be on the pitch. There's more to football than that.

I don't have a problem with you not wanting to see Ozil because his perceived lack of effort but the bold bit is whole hearted revisionism.

Anwyay, falling out with key players six months into your new job usually ends up going only one way. Even if Emery is backed and eventually wins this battle (see: Pep vs Yaya), it'll cause plenty of toxicity around the club. This could have been handled so much better with both Ozil and Emery playing games in front of the world.

I'm not ready to blame Emery for this because I think this started long before he arrived. The difference last year was that Ozil played. We didnt actually perform much better, though. It's not revisionist to say we didnt qualify for the CL with Ozil as our star player. It's a fact. I'm not saying it was his fault. He is who he is. I loved him as a player, and still do really, but I don't think he's the right man for Arsenal anymore. I'd rather we moved on. The toxicity of Twitter is unavoidable, we can't be making decisions based on that.

Mirth

Coombs wrote:
Mirth wrote:
I don't have a problem with you not wanting to see Ozil because his perceived lack of effort but the bold bit is whole hearted revisionism.

Anwyay, falling out with key players six months into your new job usually ends up going only one way. Even if Emery is backed and eventually wins this battle (see: Pep vs Yaya), it'll cause plenty of toxicity around the club. This could have been handled so much better with both Ozil and Emery playing games in front of the world.

I'm not ready to blame Emery for this because I think this started long before he arrived. The difference last year was that Ozil played. We didnt actually perform much better, though. It's not revisionist to say we didnt qualify for the CL with Ozil as our star player. It's a fact. I'm not saying it was his fault. He is who he is. I loved him as a player, and still do really, but I don't think he's the right man for Arsenal anymore. I'd rather we moved on. The toxicity of Twitter is unavoidable, we can't be making decisions based on that.

I appreciate we're both coming at this from the perspective of what is best for Arsenal. And I agree - we should be looking to move Ozil at this stage anyway. However, by not playing him at all we're

1) less likely to qualify for the CL in the first place
2) less likely to find suitors willing to take Ozil of our hands.

goon

I actually think Emery’s comments are fairly reconciliatory.

Claudius

goon wrote:
I actually think Emery’s comments are fairly reconciliatory.

That’s what those comments look like on the surface, Goon.
However, that’s less interesting than the manager is talentless, vindictive hack or Ozil is a mutinous hasbeen

mdgoonah41

goon wrote:
I actually think Emery’s comments are fairly reconciliatory.

to be fair, hes never said he wants ozil gone, everyone just assumed that was the case. when hes spoken about ozil to the press, hes said that there is a place for him in the team and at the club.

based on his comments in the bbc article, this might have been the issue the entire time. really since early in the season, ozil has been missing random trainings and has had these minor issues, and emery has said he picks the team based on their preparation and his best assessment. if he feels ozil isnt training properly, then it would be logical to assume that is the reason hes dropped him and excluded him over the last 4 months. hes only said once or twice, that i can remember, that ozil didnt play for "tactical" reasons, and honestly, if ozil wasnt fit or emery didnt think he was prepared, that is a tactical reason for not playing him.

Coombs

@[deleted], Yes I think that's probably true, but I also think the player is making this more difficult than it should be in equal measure, if not more so, than the manager. Both have a track record, so I'm willing to blame both, but the real buck stops with our DoF, who has to overrule both and make what he thinks is best for the club happen.

If Sanllehi moves Ozil on in a deal anywhere close to reasonable this summer, than we can say this played out OK. I'm not sure that CL qualification and Ozil playing have much of a direct relationship anymore. I wish it were the case, but I am genuinely unsure that he would meaningfully affect our results if he played more regularly.

If we start next season in exactly the same situation we are in now, this is an unmitigated disaster and someone should probably be fired. Whether that is Emery, or Sanllehi, or whoever else, I don't really care. If the current team + a new technical director can get us out of this before next seasons begins, I'm willing to banish the whole ridiculous saga to the darker recesses of my brain forevermore. I would love if, somehow, Ozil showed up and played his heart out, bought into the new coaching regime, and led by example like the experienced pro he should be by now, but I'm not holding out any hope.

I think you only have to look at Ramsey and how he's handling his own situation to see that Ozil is very much at some fault here.

Bold Tone

Huddersfield and Bate say hi!

Gazza M

There were murmurs that wenger indulged ozils sketchy training habits but you never really know what's going on behind the scenes.

For me it started with the bournemouth game when he was dropped despite being fit, and i think his reaction to that rubbed emery the wrong way. He's been frozen out since then

Mirth

Coombs wrote:
If Sanllehi moves Ozil on in a deal anywhere close to reasonable this summer, than we can say this played out OK. I'm not sure that CL qualification and Ozil playing have much of a direct relationship anymore. I wish it were the case, but I am genuinely unsure that he would meaningfully affect our results if he played more regularly.

We're at a point where we have no depth and we're bringing Denis Suarez (who I'm not writing off) over Ozil (and Ramsey). We've picked a lot of battles in a season that should have been all about steadying the ship.

Agree that this is something the DoF should have mediated on but their busy with their own power battles now that Gazidis has gone.

Clrnc

Gazza M wrote:
There were murmurs that wenger indulged ozils sketchy training habits but you never really know what's going on behind the scenes.

Wenger pretty much siding with Emery with his comfort zone comments. Big old Weng knows what is going on clearly.

Coombs

Yep, I'd put the whole Arsenal situation, including the Ozil saga, on the turmoil higher up in the club. If we don't find some stability there, things like this will keep happening.

Captain

Emery lying through his buck teeth. 😆

HomeSteak

Captain wrote:
Emery lying through his buck teeth. 😆

😆 😆

Claudius

As I said, this sells a lot better.

MistaT

Think he did enough to start our next game vs Southhampton? Or, will he be in line for Bournemouth three days later?

Gurgen

No, let's go with 3 DMs again.

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