The new guy - Wengs replacement: Page 8 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The new guy - Wengs replacement

Claudius

Clrnc, from a capabilities standpoint, your top 5 feels right to me. Those are the guys I would also go for. I would add Emergy to the gamble category as well. Regularly finished 3rd with Valencia. Although he had some low finishes with Sevilla, he was still dominant in Europa League, and was doing a lot of this with budget constraints, even playing with what was essentially a youth team. His Barca defeat last year is a black mark, but as we have seen this month in Champs League, shit happens

Anzac

IMO much will depend on both the initial priorities of the club, and then the roles within the new structure.

So far as the priority is concerned the club may feel it needs to re-establish some credibility in terms of the quality of football, their top4/CL and their value as a product for their commercial partners. If so then I do not think that a project is the initial means of doing so, and as such and potentially without the draw of CL football, the club will need to hire a manager who is able to provide a genuine sense that the club is serious in it's intentions to reform and go forward. This would be accompanied by changes to the match day squad in that it would no longer be used to provide development opportunities unless on merit, and a more mature / developed 1st XI would be put together in order to regain top4/CL within the current contract for the likes of PEA, Ozil, Mkhi & Lacazette. That does not mean there is no place for our development youth, but the priority shifts in the short term.

So far as the roles are concerned if the new manager is essentially a head coach, then the questions regarding transfers and club direction are handled by the CEO, Chairman, DoF and Head of Recruiting, whilst the manager concentrates upon the team training, match tactics etc. As such IMO the questions regarding relative experience in club management become less important if the club structure is strong and qualified in regards to relevant subject matter experts.
Under these criteria the likes of Loew remain in contention based upon his football credentials and achievements on the pitch, as do the likes of Enrique, Benitez, Allegri. That said Loew's involvement with the WC will pose issues - particularly if our season starts mid-July with the Europa quals.

Alternatively if regaining top4/CL is not the main priority (as opposed to the football and the ability to develop and utilise our youth), then the likes of Jardim becomes more attractive.

I do not count Ancelotti as he is seen as more of a fine tuner type rather than a (re)builder. Likewise I do not think BR has the credibility in Europe let alone the response from tour fan base. Arteta and TH have the draw with the supporters, but lack any experience as manager.
Tuchel and Nagelsmann have the reputation as the NextGen but have also yet to have any real success.
IMO the likes of PV ticks a lot of boxes both with the club and supporters, and the real question in regards to his suitability is more about the success and capability of the rest of the structure to support him. Likewise I think the likes of Fonseca or even Laudrup are also valid options, but I'm not sure that they'd be the best option under the current circumstances.

I suspect that Enrique may be the better option atm.
http://www.squawka.com/news/luis-enriques-football-philosophy-explained-from-dismantling-tiki-taka-to-msn-and-tactical-heresy/917022#zIqlWQLWJAeMz7pD.97

https://www.barcablaugranes.com/2016/12/22/14064182/tactics-key-difference-luis-enrique-barcelona-pep-guardiola

http://www.squawka.com/news/barcelonas-3-3-1-3-a-brutal-weapon-capable-of-overcoming-psg-and-storming-la-liga/912264#BSLLCemo0ZHdFqIg.97

https://fifaforums.easports.com/en/discussion/54570/aias87s-guide-to-a-forgotten-formation-3-3-1-3

lorddulaarsenal

Don’t get the negative views on Enrique

This is a guy who played for both Real Madrid and Barcelona - takes some character to do that

He’s also won the Champions League and has experience managing big stars in a far more demanding environment than here

jones

Yeah all that might be true but he's a shit coach. Di matteo won the CL too handling big egos but nobody in their right mind would want him either.

We're closer to Roma or Celta than 2015 Barcelona at the moment. His performance will be closer to those two stints too - counterattacking football without being able to coach defence is a horrible idea regardless of what players you have at your disposal

Anzac

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Don’t get the negative views on Enrique

This is a guy who played for both Real Madrid and Barcelona - takes some character to do that

He’s also won the Champions League and has experience managing big stars in a far more demanding environment than here

Must admit my initial reaction was much the same as most reactions to Guardiola away from the Barca machine,
particularly as his time prior to the Barca job did not turn heads at Roma for the right reasons.

Then I read some of the talk in those links about he tried to convert Roma to become more like Barca - much like De Boer at Palace perhaps & with much the same results.

Further to this he had the balls to then change Barca's style and to sacrifice some possession for speed in transition.
In doing so his achievements as Barca manager are as good as any in winning 9 or 13 possible titles.

Finally who can forget 'that' comeback v PSG regardless of how dodgy some of the defending or decisions.
Accordingly I find the 3313 / 343 diamond an intriguing prospect that may not only help to address/resolve a number of our issues re square pegs etc, but may also suite a number of our players & provide a better balance whilst not detracting from our want for attacking football.

jones

Good write up Clrnc. Quique Setien is an interesting call, he eerily reminiscent of early/mid 2000s Wenger. Tactically not exactly flexible ie never change regardless of opposition, high defensive line, likes possession, wingers always involved in the build up/rarely hugging the touch line and a pretty good big game record (wins at the Bernabeu, 5-3 win at the Pizjuan etc)

He's as close to a football idealist as you're going to find which is a breath of fresh air in a time where even the young upcoming blokes like Nagelsmann and Tedesco play cynical pragmatic football. I imagine if Wenger had a say he'd recommend him, and while he's not high up my list he'd be a highly interesting leftfield pick - again another similarity to Wenger.

lorddulaarsenal

He’s got the X Factor. Danger is we chose someone from the bundesliga who will be decent but not great like Pochettino

Jed

How exciting is it to think that we would soon have a manager who would hopefully do the following:

-Finally sort out our shambles of a defence
-Have a clear system/style of play
-Have some tactical nous and can outthink/outsmart opposing managers
-Drop non performing players including star players (Özil) without hesitation
-Not persist with the same formation when it clearly isn't working
-Actually offer up a Plan B and be tactically flexible when needed
-Sign the players we actually need and who would fit into whatever style/system he prefers and not the other way round
-Make sure not to neglect positions when it's blindingly obvious they need strengthening (no proper DM for the last decade)
-Improve our current players, motivate them, instill a winners mentality
-Make tactical substitutions whenever needed and not only after the 70th minute mark
-Not put too much faith in dross and misfits and be ruthless in binning them
-Never agree to sell our best players to rival clubs
-Prioritize winning trophies not just a top 4 finish
-Get the players properly prepared before a game especially vs the top sides
-Not sit on his arse all game instead of getting up and directing the players

Buzzing

Captain

Think the style of play Enrique adopted at Barca will suit the premiership well.

Bold Tone

I think it would be impossible to recreate that style as we do not have the personnel.
Barcelona had Messi, Suarez and Neymar leading the line with Iniesta and Busquets in midfield.

Captain

It was a counter attacking style, primarily.

Anzac

Bold Tone wrote:
I think it would be impossible to recreate that style as we do not have the personnel.
Barcelona had Messi, Suarez and Neymar leading the line with Iniesta and Busquets in midfield.

Certainly perhaps not exactly like for like but we can provide something pretty similar without breaking the bank.

For example we'd need a genuine wide player/dribbler to play alongside PEA and Lacazette, or we could use Mkhi similar to the role he played under Tuchel at BVB.
Likewise we could play a diamond midfield 4 with Ozil at the top, Xhaka at the base, with Rambo & Elneny playing supporting roles in the middle.
In defence all of our CB options look better in a back 3 rather than as a pairing.

For mind the 2 biggest changes in style would be the use of the flanks with the winger used to provide width rather than WBs as seen in a 352 / 3421, and the transition at pace to get the ball to the front 4 asap compared to our current turgid style.

Not having watched much EPL this season but I suspect that LFC actually play a similar style and intent in transition with their 433.

Bold Tone

Captain wrote:
It was a counter attacking style, primarily.

I agree that abandoning our slow sideways passing build-up play style would help but disagree on using his time at Barca as a barometer due to the excess level of talent he had at his disposal there.

Anzac

Captain wrote:
It was a counter attacking style, primarily.

It's all relative = Barca's possession % dropped from mid - high 60s as a result,
but was still around the high 50s - 60% mark which is still around top5 in UEFA top5 this season.

We're supposed to be a possession based side rather than counter-attacking,
and our % this season is 2nd in the PL behind MC with just under 59%.
Spuds have 58% & LFC is sitting on 57% & both a considered to be counter attacking.

Anzac

Bold Tone wrote:
Captain wrote:
It was a counter attacking style, primarily.

I agree that abandoning our slow sideways passing build-up play style would help but disagree on using his time at Barca as a barometer due to the excess level of talent he had at his disposal there.

Whilst I think it can be done and that Enrique meets the profile we may want if we want to push to regain top4,
I actually think we are more likely to look to sign Jardim because he has shown 2 different styles at Monaco - defensive and attacking, as well as his ability to develop young talent.
I also think that his 442 (with wide playmakers rather than genuine wingers),
is possibly even easier to implement with our current squad options.

Anzac

Jed wrote:
How exciting is it to think that we would soon have a manager who would hopefully do the following:

-Finally sort out our shambles of a defence
-Have a clear system/style of play
-Have some tactical nous and can outthink/outsmart opposing managers
-Drop non performing players including star players (Özil) without hesitation
-Not persist with the same formation when it clearly isn't working
-Actually offer up a Plan B and be tactically flexible when needed
-Sign the players we actually need and who would fit into whatever style/system he prefers and not the other way round
-Make sure not to neglect positions when it's blindingly obvious they need strengthening (no proper DM for the last decade)
-Improve our current players, motivate them, instill a winners mentality
-Make tactical substitutions whenever needed and not only after the 70th minute mark
-Not put too much faith in dross and misfits and be ruthless in binning them
-Never agree to sell our best players to rival clubs
-Prioritize winning trophies not just a top 4 finish
-Get the players properly prepared before a game especially vs the top sides
-Not sit on his arse all game instead of getting up and directing the players

Buzzing

A number of these criteria will be tasked to the other elements of the backroom staff - particularly in terms of transfers and squad building/balance.

One of the simplest things I'm looking forward to is the ditching of AW's transfer policy and in particular only making offers for players their club say they are prepared to sell. I don't want to see any repeats of the Martial scenario where we 'enquired' as to his availability and didn't make an offer when Monaco said they didn't want to sell, and then MU came in with a late offer and the rest is history.

No more frakking compromises.

y va marquer

I don't know why there's such a kerfuffle about Enrique when this guy's in the running

DKGooner

The way I see it, we are not going to have the opportunity to do a massive overhaul in playing personnel this summer with the world cup and a shorter transfer window. We are going to have to rely on a lot of the players we have now going into next season and we need our next manager to be able to handle that.

At the moment, I don't see this being the right time to introduce a developing manager who is new to the league. I'm not sure that going for a disciplinarian coach is the way to go right now either. I like Simeone and would like to see what Enrique could do at this club, but given the level of competition in the league, I doubt we have the squad to cope with their work ethic and get results in one season. No matter how much we needed change, I'm not sure how supportive we would all be of a new manager if our league position didn't improve on this season in the next.

Maybe we need Minsalat and co to have another season with the squad overhaul coupled initially with a manager that is not a transformative presence. My instinct is that our next appointment will not be a long-term one, i.e. stay for more than 2 years.

Bold Tone

Anzac wrote:
Captain wrote:
It was a counter attacking style, primarily.

It's all relative = Barca's possession % dropped from mid - high 60s as a result,
but was still around the high 50s - 60% mark which is still around top5 in UEFA top5 this season.

We're supposed to be a possession based side rather than counter-attacking,
and our % this season is 2nd in the PL behind MC with just under 59%.
Spuds have 58% & LFC is sitting on 57% & both a considered to be counter attacking.

Stats are overrated

In our last game were comfortably beaten by Newcastle who only had 28% possession.

Anzac

Bold Tone wrote:
Anzac wrote:
It's all relative = Barca's possession % dropped from mid - high 60s as a result,
but was still around the high 50s - 60% mark which is still around top5 in UEFA top5 this season.

We're supposed to be a possession based side rather than counter-attacking,
and our % this season is 2nd in the PL behind MC with just under 59%.
Spuds have 58% & LFC is sitting on 57% & both a considered to be counter attacking.

Stats are overrated

In our last game were comfortably beaten by Newcastle who only had 28% possession.

lol - I agree.

Was just trying to illustrate that despite supposedly being more of a counter attacking style and a corresponding drop off in possession,
the reality is that their possession was still in line with our current numbers as a possession based style.

We've long said that our players would be better with genuine training and tactics both as individuals and more importantly as parts of units.

« Previous Page Next Page »