The new guy - Wengs replacement: Page 55 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The new guy - Wengs replacement

Burnwinter

I'm exaggerating I guess, we did just sell Ox for good money. Still, it's an area we can improve on a lot.

Herbas

I just had a thought that the Wenger announcement came out of nowhere, there was basically no rumours at all leading to that, if I remember well. No countless tweets about Wenger's job being in danger, majority of people were thinking that he'll stay til the end.

Now there is a stark contrast to that, it feels like there is a live-stream bodycam placed on Arteta.

I think no one knows shit, because otherwise we would have heard much more about imminent Wenger resignment.

Anzac

innervisionscm wrote:
Arsenal should never get away from clever recruitment and a reliance on youth. Unless you're Barca/Madrid, the bread and butter of a competitive club has to be good scouting and good youth development. That's where you derive a ton of surplus value. Having more revenue should let us buy a Özil-type crown jewel every once in a while as a supplement. Instead we're signing mid-table players like Mustafi for £35m and Lacazette for £50m.

IIRC Mustafi was a last minute deal we went back in for when we couldn't sign Manolas.

I think Lacazette is better than mid-table but IMO a LOT of our issues have been a mismatch in terms of players v roles & formation etc.

Anzac

Ricky1985 wrote:
Tony Montana wrote:
Dull, uninspired, safe an easy option.

Get someone different who has no arsenal connection.

I don't see Arteta as a safe option, and certainly not an easy option

I think appointing a more established manager, whose quality is known, in the mould of Wenger--Ancelotti or Pellegrini, for example--without making sweeping changes to the personnel and structure of the coaching/medical setup, would be a much less risky approach. That continuity is in my opinion almost a guarantee that we would see an increase in our performance level and points total for next season. A sort of improved status quo, if you will.

Appointing Arteta, alongside an overhaul of our coaching/medical staff and methods, creates a much greater chance that next season our performance could be markedly worse.

I think it's fair to assume Gazidis and the other board members know very well that this season is a very important one for the club. Another season finishing outside the top four would be disastrous for our financial capability in the short-term and weaken our brand longer-term (further damaging our competitiveness financially).
The only reason for appointing Arteta and increasing the level of risk--since it is clearly not a crowd pleasing choice--is surely because there is a strong enough belief by those making the decision that Arteta has a greater upside than the safer and more popular candidates and can hit the ground running and compete with the 4 or 5 indisputably elite coaches at the clubs we are competing against. If those two beliefs aren't there then it makes no sense whatever to appoint Arteta.

I respect the courage being shown by the club in taking a risk and backing their judgment. I think it's very brave and very bold.

Agreed. IMO this is a bigger overhaul of the football side of the club than seen at any time under AW. I recall discussions some years ago where the general consensus from the BoD under Hill-Wood was talking about progress via Evolution being preferred to forced change via Revolution. IMO this is very much the later scenario and it appears the thinking is to minimise the period of hurt at a time we have the least to lose and most to gain.

Anzac

innervisionscm wrote:
Klaus wrote:
I think a lot of people know the feeling. Agreed about Arteta, and I think the feeling that the bottom has already fallen out of the club is why so many are surprisingly open to his appointment. As long as he gets us to play nice attacking football again instead of this soulcrushing nonsense we've seen in the last two years it'll be an improvement.

It's really about the infrastructure of the club for me. Well run institutions win trophies in sports. Football clubs have become such complex organizations that Wenger's absolute monarchy became a complete disaster. You need a lot of smart people in specialized roles with some degree of autonomy, and you need leadership that can take on recommendations from everyone else in the building. When Wenger's skills began to deteriorate, and when his line on the best young French talent began to disintegrate, the entire club began to fall apart, and it took two years too long to get rid of him.

The style of the football is important obviously, but I just want that feeling you used to get with Arsenal that you were watching a whole that was greater than the sum of its parts, and supporting a club that was getting a remarkable return on its resources. That comes from good management up and down the club. I hate watching the product of complacency and incompetence, which is what Arsenal became the last four seasons Wenger was here.

Agreed.

Anzac

Gazza M wrote:
i expect at least another season or two out of the limelight, as arteta gets his sea legs under him and shapes the team to his vision. i'm not opposed to that, as long as there's signs of steady improvement and strong commitment to the type of football we're striving for. i hope the board are prepared for that. judging by the calibre of players we're targeting, it does look like there's an acceptance that we have to once again punch above our weight through clever recruitment and a reliance on youth

Top 4 in his first season would be an outstanding achievement for mikel, given the current state of things. however, i can see the fanbase being impatient with this approach, and also having a mistrust towards the board given the long-standing perception of them being cheapskates and cowards hiding behind wenger

Our Home form gives me confidence that we have an absolute crap ton of improvement available if we can get our Away form even half as good.

I think next season is all about regaining top4 rather than silverware, and I think our signings are about experience in order to do so. I don't think we can expect top flight players to join at this point and tbh I don't think we need them for what we have in mind. I'd like too think that our player strategy is with the intent to provide a capable base in defence and midfield for our attack and creative players to flourish as much as possible.

Anzac

Burnwinter wrote:
I do think we've done poorly in both the transfer market and the academy stakes for quite a while. We've seen many stars and solid top flight players emerge at other clubs and we've had Aaron Ramsey to show for it as a standout player more or less, while many of our youngsters don't break through or go backwards.

Somehow the likes of Iwobi, Maitland-Niles and Nelson need to be converted into value. Under the current regime I don't have faith in that happening.

The club needs to press further into the murky business of buying and loaning a significant number of developing players, and of developing players at other clubs, and of being pretty ruthless about it. It's an ugly method but it feels like it's becoming a necessity.

I expect to see this improve under the new regime so long as we discard the tactical reliance upon player intuition, and actually coach the developing players regarding their position and roles.

arsedocmd

Just get the guy managing nagoya grampus now.

Too much analysis. There's no way of telling who will turn up how. There's just too many variables in a managerial tenure.

Qwiss

If any of our rivals made an appointment like this would we be worried? If United made Giggs manager, Liverpool Gerrard, Chelsea Lampard, etc I think we'd view it as a lack of ambition.

Anzac

Qwiss! wrote:
If any of our rivals made an appointment like this would we be worried? If United made Giggs manager, Liverpool Gerrard, Chelsea Lampard, etc I think we'd view it as a lack of ambition.

None of them were head hunted by Guardiola or Poch,
and none of their clubs have a structure in place like ours.

He's also played at a number of clubs to get a thorough education on and off the pitch,
and he's a Barca academy graduate as a player.
As such I'd take him over any of the others any day of the week and twice on Saturday.

Burnwinter

I'm worried about Arteta, but better him than any of those three, even leaving aside their history and allegiances.

BWoolley

Agree - I worry that Arteta is being appointed not because he is the best man for the job, but because he is the one who will agree to the job with its constraints (transfer spend, wage budget) and on a lower salary.

Qwiss

Anzac wrote:
and he's a Barca academy graduate as a player.

What has that got to do with anything? How much do you have to buy into the Barca hype to think that matters in any way. :brow:

goon

Ornstein has spoken!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44165995

Sounds like Arteta is favorite, pending Allegri deciding to stay at Juve? Doesn't sound like it's remotely close to being done though.

Qwiss

I'm also worried that Arteta isn't far enough removed from the squad to be able to manage it effectively.

jones

I don't think that's a danger really, the opposite really he'll be eager to prove that he's not bound by any personal attachments from his time as a player.

I worry a lot more about his ability to coach discipline and tactical nous into the team given that he has no coaching staff to come with him and neither do we right now. There are no one-man managers out there anymore all of them come with their teams which they usually have worked with for years, and big institution like clubs like Madrid or Barcelona have tens of actual backroom staff coaches. If we really go for Arteta we'll have neither and while the decision to get rid of shithouses like Banfield was 100% right I worry how quickly we can find replacements in this busy summer.

goon

To be honest, if there's anyone there too arrogant to take instructions from him then he can drop/sell them. Ultimately it's just man management and making difficult decisions, another aspect of that will decide how good a coach he will be. Nothing that any other manager won't face.

Personally I think the familiarity should make it easier for him.

goon

jones wrote:
I worry a lot more about his ability to coach discipline and tactical nous into the team given that he has no coaching staff to come with him and neither do we right now. There are no one-man managers out there anymore all of them come with their teams which they usually have worked with for years, and big institution like clubs like Madrid or Barcelona have tens of actual backroom staff coaches. If we really go for Arteta we'll have neither and while the decision to get rid of shithouses like Banfield was 100% right I worry how quickly we can find replacements in this busy summer.

Seems like an odd decision to get rid of everyone without knowing who the next manager will be and the sort of people he wants to work with, or at the very least having a few replacements lined up if you want to manage it yourself. Odd. I mean you'd have to really think poorly of them to want to get rid of them regardless and think we'll be better off however it pans out.

BWoolley

Or maybe they were fired because Arteta, having worked with them, had a strong view to that effect. One can never know, honestly.

Mirth

This could easily become another Seedorf/Inzaghi at Milan rather than a Pep or Zidane case.

I hope it turns out well but all logic points to the contrary

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