He's acknowledged the hook up. There's also texts between them the next day.

the babe and atlantic articles are just massive smear pieces.

This kind of stuff completely dilutes the #metoo movement

It's one account of one instance amongst thousands, it does not dilute the movement.
I have always thought that these stories that lie in a grey area will be the ones seized upon to devalue what is happening and hand people who want this "moment" to end, this "conversation" to stop, the ammunition that they need.

y va marquer wrote:

It's one account of one instance amongst thousands, it does not dilute the movement.
I have always thought that these stories that lie in a grey area will be the ones seized upon to devalue what is happening and hand people who want this "moment" to end, this "conversation" to stop, the ammunition that they need.

Who are these people you refer to? I.e. do you mean the media? Or the public.

Mirth wrote:
y va marquer wrote:

It's one account of one instance amongst thousands, it does not dilute the movement.
I have always thought that these stories that lie in a grey area will be the ones seized upon to devalue what is happening and hand people who want this "moment" to end, this "conversation" to stop, the ammunition that they need.

Who are these people you refer to? I.e. do you mean the media? Or the public.

Do you think that the #metoo movement sits well with the misogynists who occupy positions of power (Hollywood, politics, media, the workplace, the home)?
Do you think men who hate women are going to accept indefinitely a movement that gives power to women?

Probably not, but then I don't think articles like this one help and I don't think it's wrong to say that

Mirth wrote:

Probably not, but then I don't think articles like this one help and I don't think it's wrong to say that.

It's ONE in hundreds, even thousands.
The reaction it provoked here alone is an indication of just how quickly a backlash can start.

y va marquer wrote:
Mirth wrote:

Probably not, but then I don't think articles like this one help and I don't think it's wrong to say that.

It's ONE in hundreds, even thousands.
The reaction it provoked here alone is an indication of just how quickly a backlash can start.

Yeah I suppose that's definitely something to be vigilant about. I don't remember people implying the same level of fatigue when children's presenters were being outed on a regular basis for over a year in the early part of this decade. There was still a witch hunt element to that but I don't think people used that as justification that enough was enough and justice was served.

y va marquer wrote:
Mirth wrote:

Probably not, but then I don't think articles like this one help and I don't think it's wrong to say that.

It's ONE in hundreds, even thousands.
The reaction it provoked here alone is an indication of just how quickly a backlash can start.

Well yeah, his career has potentially been destroyed

the people writing think pieces asking "has this gone too far" or "is this just the way the world is now" are missing the big picture. the last year has shown that inappropriate behavior, sexual harassment, assault, and worse, is prevalent in every single industry and facet of life. and the biggest lesson, and the one that hasn't gotten enough coverage (in my opinion) is that this happens EVERYWHERE. you can see how famous, powerful women are being stifled...imagine what is happening in less "glamorous" industries to women who dont have the same agency or level of power.

powerful men, especially white men, have taken advantage of their privilege and place in the world for literally thousands of years. we aren't even close to the point of asking "has this gone too far"....check back 2,000 years from now, when women will hopefully have closed the pay gap and the power gap. its sickening the backlash some women who have spoken out have faced. people dont realize that there is nothing to be gained, except trying to empower others and spur change, in speaking out. yet these people face tons of criticism, 99% of it being unwarranted. im a man. i cant even imagine the pain that these women are going through, emotional and physical. they need to be supported, in every way possible, from now through the end of eternity.

Well said. There is always the risk that there will be some false accusations. But overall, the movement is doing much more good than it is likely to do harm. We need for these issues to be exposed because people are living in fear. They go to work in fear, they are scared of speaking up about things that make them uncomfortable, they are unfairly compensated. We need to surface these issues as clearly as possible.

For the people who think it’s a witch hunt, that’s not an abnormal feeling. It’s the same kind of shouting when the black lives matter movement started two years ago and was met with All Lives / Blue Lives Matter counter movements. When people who are unaware of how the status quo is oppressing others are shaken and left feeling (surprisingly) vulnerable, this is how they will react.

Irish gunner wrote:
y va marquer wrote:

It's ONE in hundreds, even thousands.
The reaction it provoked here alone is an indication of just how quickly a backlash can start.

Well yeah, his career has potentially been destroyed

That remains to be seen.
I'm of the opinion that it won't be.

David Klion

✔@DavidKlion

The hard truth people's reactions are revealing: NotAllMen, not even most men, are rapists or harassers. But I bet most men have, at some point in their lives, to some degree, behaved in ways they can recognize as uncomfortably close to that Ansari story. That's a problem.

Mirth wrote:
y va marquer wrote:

It's ONE in hundreds, even thousands.
The reaction it provoked here alone is an indication of just how quickly a backlash can start.

Yeah I suppose that's definitely something to be vigilant about. I don't remember people implying the same level of fatigue  when children's presenters were being outed on a regular basis for over a year in the early part of this decade. There was still a witch hunt element to that but I don't think people used that as justification that enough was enough and justice was served.

That's true, I hadn't thought about that.

mdgoonah41 wrote:
Coombs wrote:

This is all getting way out of hand. Women don't have some god given right to not get hurt, or to not have to feel shame or embarrassment. Bunch of entitled assholes. The Dushku account is the real shit that happens in this fucked up world. Ansari's date doesn't exist in the same bloody universe, let alone the same forum thread.

ive seen a lot of bad takes on a lot of subjects over the years, but this one is at the top of the list. maybe you just blacked out for a second and your brain malfunctioned. if so, by all means, edit the post and wipe it all out.

I'm perfectly clear-minded, but to clarify my statement, I mean that nobody on this earth can avoid being emotionally hurt, having awkward and even bad social or sexual encounters, or feeling shame and embarassment that stem for those events. The idea that anyone, in this case women specifically, should not have to feel that way, or have those kinds of things happen to them, is just nonsense.

y va is absolutely right. These kinds of "grey area" events are the perfect weapon for delegitimizing the entire movement. I think there are enough people with clear heads to see through it and ignore it, and keep up the good work that is most certainly being done.

Claudius wrote:

Well said. There is always the risk that there will be some false accusations. But overall, the movement is doing much more good than it is likely to do harm. We need for these issues to be exposed because people are living in fear. They go to work in fear, they are scared of speaking up about things that make them uncomfortable, they are unfairly compensated. We need to surface these issues as clearly as possible.

For the people who think it’s a witch hunt, that’s not an abnormal feeling. It’s the same kind of shouting when the black lives matter movement started two years ago and was met with All Lives / Blue Lives Matter counter movements. When people who are unaware of how the status quo is oppressing others are shaken and left feeling (surprisingly) vulnerable, this is how they will react.

It's dangerous to compare one movement like this one to another - there are plenty of similarities, sure, but also unique differences. For example, the metoo movement seems to be uniquely playing out in the Hollywood/mass entertainment sphere even though instances of abuse are wide spread. Nevertheless, as a result of this movement being played out in Hollywood, the appeal for mass media to sensationalise stories is arguably even stronger. I visited babe.net before writing this post and it's blatantly apparent that they are far more focused on the publicity fallout than addressing the discussion at hand.

The second thing I have issue with is the point about how the movement does more harm that good. To me, that's not sufficient justification to stifle discussion (at least in the confines of this forum) when someone says - 'hang on, this seems like an unreasonable position to be in' and the conversation about continuing to grow this movement should also consider how it can achieve those aims without causing any harm at all and damaging to those who get caught up in it. Failure to grasp that will, in fact, play into the hands of those who want to derail the discussion and let it fizzle out rather than allow it to mature and become a less dynamic but more prevalent part of our lives and thereby actually lead to change.

Coombs wrote:
mdgoonah41 wrote:

ive seen a lot of bad takes on a lot of subjects over the years, but this one is at the top of the list. maybe you just blacked out for a second and your brain malfunctioned. if so, by all means, edit the post and wipe it all out.

I'm perfectly clear-minded, but to clarify my statement, I mean that nobody on this earth can avoid being emotionally hurt, having awkward and even bad social or sexual encounters, or feeling shame and embarassment that stem for those events. The idea that anyone, in this case women specifically, should not have to feel that way, or have those kinds of things happen to them, is just nonsense.

but see, this blurs the lines. its one thing to be embarrassed. i once made an ass out of myself trying to pick up a girl at a bar. i tried a really corny line and she laughed at me and walked away. that was embarrassing for me. but i didnt take it out on her. i have to imagine that anyone who has ever been in an intimate setting with someone can understand when something crosses the line. human beings have senses and intuitions. if someone asks for something or tries something and they get rebuffed, that is a clear signal to stop. if you choose to not stop, that is on you, not the other person.

y va is absolutely right. These kinds of "grey area" events are the perfect weapon for delegitimizing the entire movement. I think there are enough people with clear heads to see through it and ignore it, and keep up the good work that is most certainly being done.

the gray area seems to be trying to draw lines between physical abuse and emotional abuse. ive seen people saying "guys being creepy in DMs on twitter" should be treated differently from guys who actually exposed themselves to strangers. to me, you are still talking about the same thing....its abuse. a person in power being creepy to a subordinate, even if its just words, is using his or her power to try and influence the subordinate into doing something they probably dont want to do. a guy pulling out his dick in front of a woman and masterbating is also emotionally abusing that woman. lots of people who have been physically abused have also been emotionally abused and the emotional abuse often has longer lasting effects.

using your power (all different types of power) to degrade someone is a serious offense, whether or not it leaves a physical mark, and it should not be brushed away in any situation.