What do we do when Vermaelen is fully fit?: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

What do we do when Vermaelen is fully fit?

Ricky1985

To be fair to the other two, they're not bad either!

[deleted]

The second Vermaelen is capable of playing 90 minutes of good football, I want him at the heart of our defense, alongside Djourou. The union of these two excellent players might mean the difference between us winning the title and giving it away. Vermaelen is a tremendous player and Djourou is finally becoming the player I've always believed he could be. He has been amazing this season. I just love watching him back there. Him and Vermaelen would really be something to behold.

I'm sorry but Squillaci has been poor since he joined. I hope he gets better and fully adapts. I was very happy when he signed because I really thought he was instrumental in getting Monaco to the Champions League Final against Porto but its been really tough for him. I'm fully behind him and hope he emerges as a leader at the back for us but its not looking great right now. The n*wcastle experience really made me reevaluate my estimation of the man.

I just want my Verminator back.

banduan

kamikaze wrote:
i miss how toure and campbell in their primes would use their pace to close down attackers and then take them out with a perfectly executed slide tackle. that combination of athleticism and technique is just as satisfying to watch as a slide rule pass from bergkamp.

You know what reminded me of that? Nick's sliding tackle against Wolves 😆
Was perfect!

kamikaze

i'm also not saying vermaelen's not one of the best CB's in the league, so you can stop being so defensive about that. vermaelen's fantastic. he's great with the ball at his feet, and he's got a great leap, but if you're jostling for position with drogba (or jason roberts for that matter), djourou has the better physical tools to deal with that. that's the reality of the english league.

i'm not saying size is the end all, be all. i explicitly said "all things being equal". but size obviously is more important at CB than at other positions, otherwise CB's wouldn't be the biggest players on the pitch, would they? otherwise managers all over the world wouldn't be willing to sacrifice a bit of technique for size when it comes to CB, would they? i dont see how you can argue that. well, i can, it's because you're klaus and you consider yourself some sort of FIFA technical expert/talent scout.

Klaus

kamikaze wrote:
well, i can, it's because you're klaus and you consider yourself some sort of FIFA technical expert/talent scout.

You're just being ridiculous now. Makes it so not worth having this discussion with you. You come across as someone who doesn't know his arse from his elbow just like you usually do too.

kamikaze wrote:
i'm not saying size is the end all, be all. i explicitly said "all things being equal". but size obviously is more important at CB than at other positions, otherwise CB's wouldn't be the biggest players on the pitch, would they? otherwise managers all over the world wouldn't be willing to sacrifice a bit of technique for size when it comes to CB, would they?

I didn't say that size is unimportant, I said that it's one aspect of many and that there's a tradeoff. It depends on what kind of team you want to build and which style of play you've adopted. The point is that it's never "all things being equal". You can't just form a theoretical example and then ignore everything else. You lose some things in order to gain others. In Djourou's case you lose some recovery speed and agility, for instance, which a Vermaelen or a Koscielny in turn would compensate for. If you're asking me why the majority of the clubs in Europe are adopting a physical approach with a low defensive line and few men in front of the ball then my only answer is that we're not aspiring to emulate most of those clubs. We're a world apart from Blackburn and Stoke both in terms of style and resources.

daverwr

It will be interesting to see how Vermaelen forms a partnership with either Djourou or Kos. I think on an individual level, Vermaelen walks back into the time no problem. I'd say he is still our most talented and skilled defender individually. But the thing about Kos and Djourou is that they have formed a fantastic partnership where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. That doesn't always happen when you just take two strong defenders and pair them together.

There is a definite balance there and for Vermaelen to just walk back into the team, he can't just improve the backline on an individual level. He also has to at the very least maintain that balance (or preferably improve on it even more).

asajoseph

For what it's worth, I'm glad we didn't sign Samba. He's been dreadful since we were linked to him!

Captain

Kos, for the last few months, has been as good as Vermaelen was at any point last season.

Gurgen

Totally agree. Right now Djourou and Koscielny haven't done anything to be dropped.

asajoseph

He's had games where he's been horrific though.

Ipswich away was a disaster. Newcastle, though hardly his fault alone, hardly showed him in a glorious light. Vermaelen, in either of those two games, would have been a massive asset.

He's been pretty good for the last couple of months, on the whole, I'd agree with that, but the majority of the teams we've played recently have been cack anyway - teams in lower divisions and in the relegation scrap, for the most part. He's done well, but I'm still not sure what conclusions to draw.

Timbob

I actually think both Djourou and Koscielny are better in the air than Vermaelen.

Anyway, I'd stick with the DJ-Kos partnership for now, they look good together and compliment each other really well. But TV will probably force his way back in if he's half the player he looked last season.

GaelForce

Does seem like some of you have forgotten just how dominant Vermaelen was for us. He was popular for way more than his goals. I'd argue that he was as good in the air as Djourou and comfortably better than Koscielny. Also, one of my favourite moments from last season:

Claudius

Djourou and Vermaelen for me.

I think Koscielny is settling in nicely, but that silly push against Newcastle reminds me that he is never too distant from a silly error. Djourou on the other hand, is having near flawless games and to me looks every bit as good as the much-lauded Kompany this season.

I would hesitate to play Koscielny and Vermaelen together because both have a habit of going walkabout, while Djourou tends to stay more rooted in the back. In addition, helps to have Djourou's presence and Vermaelen's all-around technical ability and athleticism. Koscielny will easily be one of the best substitute defenders next year. No Smalling here.

Irishgunnerz

DJ and Kos, letting TV ease into the side .

The DJ / Kos partnership complement each other very well. (From F365) we've conceded once every 250 odd minutes in the league when DJ has played. As for the overwhelming majority of that, he's played with Kos, it shows the strengths they have as a partnership.

I think with Kos/Squillachi we concede every 57 minutes or something.

Kel Varnsen

kamikaze wrote:
i'm also not saying vermaelen's not one of the best CB's in the league, so you can stop being so defensive about that. vermaelen's fantastic. he's great with the ball at his feet, and he's got a great leap, but if you're jostling for position with drogba (or jason roberts for that matter), djourou has the better physical tools to deal with that. that's the reality of the english league.

really? i've seen djourou "out jostled" numerous times this year. he has comitted himself too much to a challenge, only to end up on the wrong side of the striker (and the ball).

i like djourou a lot, but let's not pretend he's on vermaelen's level just yet.

lorddulaarsenal

he's not far off!

Ricky1985

Djourou still has a fair bit to learn, but that will come with experience. Imagine him at 27, if he can stay fit, there will be few better.

kamikaze

Kel Varnsen wrote:
really? i've seen djourou "out jostled" numerous times this year.

you're right, and it's partly to due with djourou not naturally being the aggressive type. he's a 6'3" metrosexual. but theoretically, djourou should be the strongest of the three - he's the tallest and most powerfully built.

koscielny is erratic at times (how many pens has he conceded already?) but i do think he's adjusting. he's good in the air, but he just doesn't have the aggression that vermaelen has (great vid, gaelforce) and for me, that puts vermaelen over him assuming everyone's on form.

i'm sort of old school when it comes to CBs, i like guys who are intimidating and don't mind bleeding. of course, i like good passing and the rest, too.

kamikaze

no shit you can't have it all, klaus. but answer the question, why are CBs generally the biggest players on the pitch and the least technical? GENERALLY speaking. i'll help you out cos that's the kind of guy i am: it's because those attributes are relatively more important back there compared to other positions. RELATIVELY. i'm not saying you must have a donkey at CB at all costs. but that's why might see midgets at forward and midfield but almost NEVER at CB.

i swear, you'd argue the earth is flat if that's what your FIFA handbook told you. i'm not exactly making a crazy point here. now go ahead and have the last word, i know you want to. you'll probably sidestep the question or bring up a 5'6" CB who plays for chivas or something.

Claudius

kamikaze wrote:
no shit you can't have it all, klaus. but answer the question, why are CBs generally the biggest players on the pitch and the least technical? GENERALLY speaking. i'll help you out cos that's the kind of guy i am: it's because those attributes are relatively more important back there compared to other positions. RELATIVELY. i'm not saying you must have a donkey at CB at all costs. but that's why might see midgets at forward and midfield but almost NEVER at CB.

i swear, you'd argue the earth is flat if that's what your FIFA handbook told you. i'm not exactly making a crazy point here. now go ahead and have the last word, i know you want to. you'll probably sidestep the question or bring up a 5'6" CB who plays for chivas or something.

😆 hard to argue with any of that

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