What do we do when Vermaelen is fully fit?: Page 4 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

What do we do when Vermaelen is fully fit?

Klaus

kamikaze wrote:
no shit you can't have it all, klaus. but answer the question, why are CBs generally the biggest players on the pitch and the least technical? GENERALLY speaking. i'll help you out cos that's the kind of guy i am: it's because those attributes are relatively more important back there compared to other positions. RELATIVELY. i'm not saying you must have a donkey at CB at all costs. but that's why might see midgets at forward and midfield but almost NEVER at CB.

😆 Love it. What am I supposed to say here, exactly? I haven't taken strides with any of it.

You rhetorically asked why we don't just play Denilson at centreback when you were talking about how much "bigger and stronger" accounts for in a defender, as if it was a foregone conclusion that you need a 6 ft 4 frame and a body mass close to 100 kg to fit the part. I simply pointed out that bigger frame doesn't account for that much and that several of the best defenders in the world - both in past and present tense - are around 6 ft / 6ft 1 or thereabout. I also said that which type of centrebacks you're going for is dictated by the style of play you've adopted and that there's a tradeoff between various abilities. I'm sure it's taken a toll on your mind to actually keep track of what's been said in-between the personal attacks but there you go.

lorddulaarsenal

tho koscielny is not weak in the air, i wouldnt say he was particularly strong - a lot of his headed clearances drop about five/ten yards from the defence - not meaty enough

Kel Varnsen

kamikaze wrote:
Kel Varnsen wrote:
really? i've seen djourou "out jostled" numerous times this year.
you're right, and it's partly to due with djourou not naturally being the aggressive type. he's a 6'3" metrosexual. but theoretically, djourou should be the strongest of the three - he's the tallest and most powerfully built.

koscielny is erratic at times (how many pens has he conceded already?) but i do think he's adjusting. he's good in the air, but he just doesn't have the aggression that vermaelen has (great vid, gaelforce) and for me, that puts vermaelen over him assuming everyone's on form.

i'm sort of old school when it comes to CBs, i like guys who are intimidating and don't mind bleeding. of course, i like good passing and the rest, too.

i love the agression and intensity of vermaelen's game. he fires up the team. a bit like flamini did. add to that, he's an excellent footballer and a very good defender.

RocktheCasbah

dave_rwr wrote:
It will be interesting to see how Vermaelen forms a partnership with either Djourou or Kos. I think on an individual level, Vermaelen walks back into the time no problem. I'd say he is still our most talented and skilled defender individually. But the thing about Kos and Djourou is that they have formed a fantastic partnership where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. That doesn't always happen when you just take two strong defenders and pair them together.

That's the key bit for me. My prefernece, player for player would be Vermaelen and Djourou. but we don't know whether that will be the partnership it should be. I think Vermaelen's fighting qualities should see him back in the team- he has an aggression that doesn't appear to exist in Djourou or Koscielny, but will he upset the balance that we've found?

Captain

Stylistically, not much seperates Koscielny and Vermaelen so he should be able to just slot into that position next to Djourou. I'm not sure how Verm/Kos would look.

Qwiss

kamikaze wrote:
or bring up a 5'6" CB who plays for chivas or something.

Or this guy

Rohit

It is hard to deny that the biggest players on the pitch generally are defenders.

It is also hard to deny that most of the defenders that have been considered top class over the years have been medium sized players with great technique and superb reading of the game rather than those with a big/ strong physique who lack in technique.

Anyway, i love Vermaelen and logic says a Djourou Vermaelen combination will work very well.

I also believe Koscielny if he cuts out those moments of idiocy has the makings of a top class defender. His reading of the game when it is being played in front of him is better than even Vermaelen in my opinion. It is in his decision making when one on one that he is really found wanting at times.

lorddulaarsenal

Been critical of kos but he was superb tonight. We have three of the best centrebacks in Europe

Rohit

Koscielny was brave but not stupid. I loved how he once chased Messi into the Barca half and then won the ball. When you consider the magnitude of the game and then think of where he has come from it is amazing. It takes real strength to play like he did.

And as i said above, his reading of the game is second to none. The word 'vision' for a defender is rarely used but this man has it.

What a game he had!

est

What about that block he made on Messi in injury time? Would have been a certain goal that.

Loved how the skinny figure of Koscielny made himself look like Sol out-muscling the lot of Barca attackers. 😆

He's so brilliant with the ball at his feet as well. So many good passes from the back. Nice crisp passing. Having said that, both Djourou and Vermaelen are very good at it as well.

What to do when Vermaelen comes back? I would ease him in and use him to give rest to Djourou and Koscielny, but I'd play the DJ-Kos partnership in all of the important fixtures. They've had time to form a good partnership, it wouldn't be wise to tamper with it now. Even if Vermaelen is better individually than either of those two, just putting him straight back in the starting XI may disturb the balance/understanding the current pairing has found between themselves and the midfield/fullbacks.

banduan

I still remember that stat about Verm not misplacing a single pass for something like half a dozen matches on the trot.

asajoseph

I like Koscielny (and Djourou's) charges out of the defence with the ball at their feet. Koscielny particularly needs to tighten up on the ball he plays when he does that though, in the second leg, as Barca are more than fast enough to catch him completely out of position when he gives it away.

Claudius

Yeah, Koscielny's walk-about ways were a bit worrying against Barca, given how, particularly on one occasion in first half, he gave the ball away in midfield. It was impressive that he was able to hound those ass-holes and get the ball back in midfield or push them back, but it did leave us a little exposes in the back. The key is that Djourou, Song and, to a lesser, extent Clichy and Sagna are covering him when he goes on a stroll.

I'm happy for him though. Hopefully, he can replay yesterday's video and start to overcome the trauma of his many mishaps earlier in the season.

Qwiss

I had said just put Vermaelen in with Djourou when he's back but now I'm not so sure, I suppose a bit of rotation wouldn't hurt.

Captain

He made a big mistake yesterday and quite a few small ones but he hussled well for the ninety and showed some good proactive defending as well as recovering well. Good game from him but (opposition aside), he has played better than that for a while now.

Tony Montana

Djourou's out for the FA Cup game on Sunday with a bad back. I hope he's cool for next tuesday. Not a big fan of Squillaci.

Also Vermaelen's not around for another 3 weeks or so.

Clrnc

He sure gave the ball away but that was just a split inaccurate.

His overall performance was heroic especially in the 2nd half. I would definitely not put Vermy first choice until next season at least.

lorddulaarsenal

kozzy you superstar!!!

Ricky1985

krengon wrote:
There was a really interesting interview with Nordtveit in the official norwegian Gunners magazine. The part about our CB's was especially interesting(not 100% accurate translation):

"Buying Koscielny and Squillaci made my way to the first team longer, but Koscielny is incredible. He's the best centreback at Arsenal. He's a typical Wenger buy, an unknown player. No one gets past him in training. However, I'm more sceptical towards Squillaci. He's in his 30's and has a lot of experience, but he makes too many mistakes and struggles with his passing, both in training and in matches. I think Koscielny and Vermaelen will be a good partnership, although I'm a big fan of Djourou. He's really big, wins everything in the air and is a really nice guy.Not arrogant at all "

This is more or less what I already thought about our CB's. Koscielny's potential is huge and he has already shown glimpses of how good he can be.

Good find by Krengon, on A-M.

Best centreback at the club? I just wonder if there is a whole lot more to come from Koscielny as he adjusts mentally and physically to the Premier League. I love him, very much my kind of defender, and that performance against Barca was as good as anything I've seen for a while.

Klaus

I'm pretty sure he'll be one of the best defenders in Europe next season. The signs were so obvious even when he first arrived. We're going to be set for the rest of the decade if we manage to keep those three players in the squad.

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