Credit should really go to Moon Jae-in.
However, it does show that the conventional approach towards NK by the US was a sack of shit.
Trouble on the Korean Peninsula
Bold Tone wrote:For that, whether you hate Trump, you have to admit his ramped up pressure went further than any other recent US President.
Why would I have to "admit"?
It is clear and obvious from his twitter feed that Trump's handing of North Korea was radically different from his predecessors - casually threatening to obliterate N Korea definitely went further than any other recent US President.
It's not directed at you in particular.
It is anyone who denies his influence as the most powerful player in the conflict.
As for his twitter, it is background noise.
He used it to talk shit before he was president and has continued talking shit on it as president.
The effect of leverage on China and biting sanctions are what effected change, imo.
I don't agree at all - his twitter "noise" dominated the mainstream news and online conversations, it drove the news cycle - it fed into genuine fear that he would embark on a full scale conflict.
Claudius wrote:If this continues to progress, that combination of players will be up for the Nobel prize. Imagine the Nobel panel discussing Trump’s candidacy. I guess if they give to to Lil Rocket Man, might as well.
June 2000:
People have short memories.
Klaus wrote:Claudius wrote:If this continues to progress, that combination of players will be up for the Nobel prize. Imagine the Nobel panel discussing Trump’s candidacy. I guess if they give to to Lil Rocket Man, might as well.
June 2000:
People have short memories.
Well it worked till the US called North Korea part of the Axis of Evil and pushed for the Sunshine policy to be shelved....
Exactly, Mirth.
Any small progress that is being made here has nothing to do with Trump or the US, really. If anything it happens in spite of them like usual. This instance to always read the world with American glasses is hilarious. The mess on the Korean peninsula is American-made, that much is true, but that's rarely the angle people focus on. Let's keep giving them credit for any diplomatic relationships that have been established and keep talking down to the Koreans.
South Korea have softened up Kim for years now while the Trump administration has done nothing but trying to agitate a nuclear war. North Korea were invited to the winter olympics while Mike Pence showed up with Otto Warmbier's father as his +1. The meetings between Moon and Kim happened without American interference - which is probably why they happened at all.
Klaus wrote:Exactly, Mirth.
Any small progress that is being made here has nothing to do with Trump or the US, really. This instance to always read the world with American glasses is hilarious. The mess on the Korean peninsula is American-made, that much is true, but that's rarely the angle people focus on. Let's keep giving them credit for any diplomatic relationships that have been established and keep talking down to the Koreans. South Korea have softened up Kim for years now while the Trump administration has done nothing but trying to agitate a nuclear war. North Korea were invited to the winter olympics while Mike Pence showed up with Otto Warmbier's father as his +1.
I wouldn't say they've been softening NK for years: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/13/south-korea-says-time-for-tough-action-after-norths-nuclear-test
They completely adopted a punitive approach with the backing of Obama/Bush given that SK also had a conservative government in place till the scandal. While Trump's rhetoric isn't helpful, it also does not directly cause stress to the North Korean public and making it hard for NK to ever reach out. Bear in mind Trump is the first US president to consent to meeting the head of state of NK. the turning point has absolutely been in the last year with Moon being elected: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-southkorea-election-idUKKBN18425M
Trump's ranting probably does have everyone running scared but I would put good money on Moon seizing his opportunity to play good cop here: http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/search1/2603000000.html?cid=AEN20170701005500315
Also in a joint statement issued at the end of their summit, they said Trump has specifically "supported President Moon's aspiration to restart inter-Korean dialogue on issues including humanitarian affairs."
"Based on this change (in U.S. policy) and the trust formed between President Trump and I, I will resolve the North Korean nuclear issue without fail and establish peace on the Korean Peninsula," Moon said at the meeting with expat South Koreans.
It's absolutely fair to say that US approval plays a big role in how this situation plays out - even now.
Mirth wrote:Klaus wrote:Exactly, Mirth.
Any small progress that is being made here has nothing to do with Trump or the US, really. This instance to always read the world with American glasses is hilarious. The mess on the Korean peninsula is American-made, that much is true, but that's rarely the angle people focus on. Let's keep giving them credit for any diplomatic relationships that have been established and keep talking down to the Koreans. South Korea have softened up Kim for years now while the Trump administration has done nothing but trying to agitate a nuclear war. North Korea were invited to the winter olympics while Mike Pence showed up with Otto Warmbier's father as his +1.
I wouldn't say they've been softening NK for years: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/13/south-korea-says-time-for-tough-action-after-norths-nuclear-test
They completely adopted a punitive approach with the backing of Obama/Bush given that SK also had a conservative government in place till the scandal. While Trump's rhetoric isn't helpful, it also does not directly cause stress to the North Korean public and making it hard for NK to ever reach out and the turning point has absolutely been in the last year with Moon being elected: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-southkorea-election-idUKKBN18425M
Trump's ranting probably does have everyone running scared but I would put good money on Moon seizing his opportunity to play good cop here: http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/search1/2603000000.html?cid=AEN20170701005500315
Aye, Moon getting elected has seen a big shift in policy.
I think the Chinese leaning on North Korea has had the biggest impact though. After they adopted the UN sanctions and gave NK companies 120 days nottice after the nuclear tests in october, things have been quiet. The Chinese market is 90 percent of all North Korean export. Kim can't even get oil into the country without them.
Of course Moon helped and i clearly mentioned him in my first post on the subject.
Personally, i think China was key as North Korea are dependent on them.
Also the Chino-US economic interdependency coupled with Trump's unpredictability, undeniably, contributed to this decision.
http://www.dw.com/en/what-is-chinas-role-in-the-north-korean-crisis/a-40029214
18 days later
The North Korean regime has called off high-level talks with Seoul and hinted it could also pull out of a planned summit with Donald Trump, in protest at joint exercises by the US and South Korean militaries.
9 days later
Trumps letter to Kim - wouldn't be out of place in the Tucker thread
Trump's State Department has fucked it all up, deliberately, when a detente between north and south was on the verge of happening.
For shame, seriously.
Also, imagine following up a nuclear threat with "ultimately, it is only dialogue that matters" …
Trump has only been remotely involved in this whole affair as a common nuisance and a fool to play off of. He makes everyone else seem rational and intelligent, and you'd have to be a goddamn fool not to take advantage of him. It's just so easy.
21 days later
2003 NBA draft.
These preacher suits. My eyes.
Not a single one of them has ever heard of the concept of tailoring your pants legs.
It’s a style. Guys in the south like it.
Klaus wrote:Not a single one of them has ever heard of the concept of tailoring your pants legs.
Or your jacket it seems.
Americans don't do suits well imo. Even when they do the shirts and trousers casual look I picture a typical sky blue shirt with the sleeves rolled up and slightly oversized beige chinos or trousers. The George Bush look.
Obama was well suited up though.
Europeans have more class in that suit dept.
Claudius wrote:It’s a style. Guys in the south like it.
Stuck in the 90s.
Looks ridiculous in my opinion. Unfortunately, wearing clothes that are too big is not restricted to suits. See it all the time with all kinds of clothes. Most people, regardless of age, just don’t dress well.
17 days later
This, basically.
Well, ten months ago it was the right/Republicans who were against the idea of peace with North Korea.
US citizens waver on issues consistently to support their side/candidate/official. No one in South Korea should take it to mean that either side cares, or doesn't care, about peace. South Korea should move on and make it happen themselves if they're so interested in peace/unification.
For the most part it’s just politics, unfortunately. Republicans did the same to Obama when he started negotiations to lift sanctions off Cuba.
However with Trump (and the alleged election malpractice history) a lot of things have to be viewed through the prism of “why?” Is there a quid pro quo somewhere?