Arsenal vs. Chelsea on Saturday at 530PM: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal vs. Chelsea on Saturday at 530PM

Gunner89

I'd consider playing our 2 best defensive CM's which would be Coquelin and Xhaka.

Claudius

Meatwad wrote:
i have no expectations for the 2 chelsea and united games. i have them down as 0/12, hoping for 2/12

i'm sitting in the same boat right now, hoping the gods have mercy on us.

MistaT

Fuck that - we should be going at them.

Koscielny alone should be able to take care of Costa. While Costa may be in great form we shouldn't be running scared of him. I'm actually more concerned by Hazard right now as I don't know who from our midfield has the stamina/pace to track him.

But what we need to do - and too often don't - is get right at them from the start, and have Sanchez/Walcott/Ozil get a few of their players on yellows, and then go at them. Can't stand how we rarely challenge players who are on a yellow and I guarantee the statue that is Ivanovic and even Cahill could be on a yellow early if we look to exploit them.

As other's have said Ozil needs to step his game up here. Don't want to see him outplayed or with loose touches, he's the type of player that we need to have on his game if we're to have a chance.

------------Ospina-----------
Bellerin-Mustafi-Koscielny-Monreal
------Coquelin--Xhaka------- (to clog Hazard's route to goal)
-----------Ozil---------------
-Alexis---Perez-----Theo (to go at Ivanovic)

Tactics

@Bold Tone, dunno why but I can't quote you. Would like to comment on the bit where you said cazorla is a passenger when played deep..

I think that's a myth, mostly propagated by people who wrote him off the moment he was played in CM. He does IMO a lot of defensive work and his defensive stats from playing in that position back up what I see with my naked eyes. He's got a very good balance between defending and attacking in that, he's always there to support the attack buy is hardly caught ahead of the ball. Yes, he's got physical disadvantage when going for 50/50s with giants like Fellaini but defending, especially in midfield, is much more about covering space, cutting off passing lanes etc than about physique. Theres's less need for duels if you move the ball quickly and the team is set up well positionally. When the team defends as a unit even midgets like Cazorla can become one of the team's best defenders - see pedro at Barca for example.

Ozil is more of a forward to me and plays exactly like one without the ball. We can easily get away with it against most teams we face but it becomes an issue in the big games IMO. Watch around Europe, there are not many teams that play a nr 10 of his ilk + 3 other forwards at the same time. Mourinho always shifted him to the wings in the big games at Madrid, think we should be doing the same.

Clrnc

Qwiss! wrote:
                   Cech

Bellerin   Mustafi Koscielny   Monreal

             Xhaka      Coquelin

Walcott            Ozil             Sanchez

                      Perez

Thats my team. Think Wenger might go with Sanchez up top and Iwobi left. Really hope he doesn't start Caz in this one. Its just not the game for him.

I would like to see that as well, but pretty sure it will be the same team as against Hull.

Qwiss

Bold Tone wrote:
Theo---------Santi-------Iwobi
-------------Sanchez

:boris: Ew

Bold Tone

@ Qs!,
My post started with "if i was limited to that line-up, ...".

@ Tactics,
You do not need to convince me as i'm not of that opinion but, as was the case with PSG, i think the chavs are stronger in this department.
My issue is combatting their midfield following the old adage of a big good un always beating a little good un (Messi apart!).
I have to admit that i haven't watched them ~~that much~~ at all under Conte so i could be completely wrong.

Rohit

We will concede the midfield battle if we play Coquelin and Cazorla behind Ozil. I don't have the confidence we can keep Chelsea out. We don't score much against them either. To think that till 2005 Chelsea were our bitches. We just never lost to them.

Qwiss

Tactics wrote:
He does IMO a lot of defensive work and his defensive stats from playing in that position back up what I see with my naked eyes.

No they don't. He has poor defensive stats which back up what his critics say.

Just have a look here

[spoiler][/spoiler]

General

We should play a flat 4-5-1with 3CMs and Ozil out wide. Very often we've beaten ourselves playing a wide open game and we are not compact enough with a number 10.

ElGeniodeOviedo

I'm not sure I would go as defensive as some are suggesting against Chelsea at home. They're no great shakes on the ball or in possession, they'll play a CM three of Oscar, Matic, and Kante and try to press us like mad in the midfield. That's exactly how Liverpool beat us down in the first game of the season, which Coquelin (not Cazorla) played in.

I think we need players who have the ability to put their foot on the ball, for me this might be a game for Xhaka and Cazorla if anything

Qwiss

It seems to me to a very theoretical argument that Cazorla is best because he can "play himself out of pressure". Against far worse teams than Chelsea we've seen thats not the case. Against teams who are willing to sit back and try to soak up pressure Cazorla is an asset but against teams that will give us any sort of midfield battle he's an inferior option given our depth in CM this season.

ElGeniodeOviedo

Qwiss! wrote:
It seems to me to a very theoretical argument that Cazorla is best because he can "play himself out of pressure". Against far worse teams than Chelsea we've seen thats not the case. Against teams who are willing to sit back and try to soak up pressure Cazorla is an asset but against teams that will give us any sort of midfield battle he's an inferior option given our depth in CM this season.

To be honest, Elnenny has shown me a promising level of both mobility and ability on the ball but for whatever reason he seems to have slipped in Wenger's pecking order. Ramsey of course is out injured for the time being. That essentially narrows down the CM selection between Xhaka, Coquelin, and Cazorla.

I don't think it's that theoretical to suggest that Cazorla is better on the ball and playing out of pressure than Coquelin is, do you? And actually I think a pretty large reason why Cazorla doesn't look as good passing it out from the back at times is that he plays with a partner who doesn't show/look for the ball and leaves him with the entire responsibility. This is shown on pretty much any passing diagram I've seen for our games this season

Bold Tone

El Genio de Oviedo wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
It seems to me to a very theoretical argument that Cazorla is best because he can "play himself out of pressure". Against far worse teams than Chelsea we've seen thats not the case. Against teams who are willing to sit back and try to soak up pressure Cazorla is an asset but against teams that will give us any sort of midfield battle he's an inferior option given our depth in CM this season.

To be honest, Elnenny has shown me a promising level of both mobility and ability on the ball but for whatever reason he seems to have slipped in Wenger's pecking order. Ramsey of course is out injured for the time being. That essentially narrows down the CM selection between Xhaka, Coquelin, and Cazorla.

I don't think it's that theoretical to suggest that Cazorla is better on the ball and playing out of pressure than Coquelin is, do you? And actually I think a pretty large reason why Cazorla doesn't look as good passing it out from the back at times is that he plays with a partner who doesn't show/look for the ball and leaves him with the entire responsibility. This is shown on pretty much any passing diagram I've seen for our games this season

You sure?

ElGeniodeOviedo

On the contrary, I'm quite sure. Even in what you posted above, Cazorla is clearly passing the ball substantially more than Coquelin, and again that's an outlier.

n=1 is not a sample size that's going to convince

General

Over the years they've simply beaten us by wrestling away the midfield battle and we know if you win the midfield battle against us you would almost certainly win. I think this game will ebb and flow and we need to be aggressive without the ball. At least we don't have that useless piece of shit Flamini to undermine us and we would have genuine options on the bench to change the course of the game. I'd still go with 3CMs. Would be nice for Wenger to spring a surprise rather than the usual predictable bullshit. Defensively they are far from watertight. We either come out all guns blazing, much a few goals, sit back and keep it tight or play chess.

Bold Tone

e: @El Genio
What is your sample size?

Claudius

i just look at that diagram and see a shocking lack of attacking width on the left.

invisibleman18

Claudius wrote:
Meatwad wrote:
i have no expectations for the 2 chelsea and united games. i have them down as 0/12, hoping for 2/12

i'm sitting in the same boat right now, hoping the gods have mercy on us.

Pretty much the same tbh. Expecting another schooling.

speedy

Years ago when we played united they used to encourage us down the right side knowing Theo couldn't cross and they'd put a few guys in him to get the ball off him and counter.

Before that Ferguson admitted his plan to stop arsenal was to stop the one two with cesc. Players kept just giving him back the ball so reading that one two was what they worked on all week.

It's the same with cazorla now we use him to get the ball out to much and teams know that's where they can stop us.. just pressing him so quick 2 on 1 he gets run over. We really need the rest to take more responsibility with the ball.

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