• The Arsenal

  • what is the money for? what is the long term plan?

Thanks for starting topic and sharing the Swiss Rambles thoughts, MDGoonah. When I read the Swiss ramblings, I immediately thought of the Pogba and Zlatan transfers. The Pogba transfer in particular is important for a few reasons. The minute that transfer happened, fans of Arsenal and other clubs went ballistic over the price. A few things to think about

  • The Zlatan transfer put United firmly back on the map as a destination for top players. He's making mad money, but United are seen as serious. The Pogba transfer reinforced that
  • The Pogba transfer might not seem to make sense when you look at the 100m pounds, but beyond branding United as a big club I think it's an investment towards strengthening their ties with Adidas. United have a 750m pound deal with Adidas, and Pogba has a 30m pound with same. By combining these two assets, Adidas will likely get a better return from both of these deals, improving their business case, much more than if they had kept this asset with their Juventus properties. This makes it more likely that Adidas see out their 10 year deal with United and look to renew down the line
  • There has been significant excitement around the deal, particularly from former players. United's energy is renewed

Whether you agree or disagree with these deals, they show naked ambition by United, the kind that is needed to excite fans, players and commercial partners. We do none of this, but our fans somehow expect us to match United et al in the commercial deals stakes. Comemrcal Managers at Adidas, Chevy, Emirates or Nike aren't interested in tying their job security to Theo Walcott.

Somehow we missed that football teams are now businesses and not societies, and failing to understand the implications of this transition is costing us significantly.

Cannon wrote:

This might sound silly or a 'rant' but i genuinely believe there is no plan. We are run by Mr Wenger's whims and fancies. I guess he thinks leaving the club with a large cash balance and in CL places will accord him messiah status with the fans. A larger than life father figure who sacrificed a lot for clubs sake.

Stan Kroenke: I didn't buy Arsenal stake to win trophies

Our difficulties are not the outcome of the whims and fancies of one highly paid, influential and previously achieving employee.

Rohit wrote:
Cannon wrote:

This might sound silly or a 'rant' but i genuinely believe there is no plan. We are run by Mr Wenger's whims and fancies. I guess he thinks leaving the club with a large cash balance and in CL places will accord him messiah status with the fans. A larger than life father figure who sacrificed a lot for clubs sake.

Stan Kroenke: I didn't buy Arsenal stake to win trophies

Our difficulties are not the outcome of the whims and fancies of one highly paid, influential and previously achieving employee.

Well Stan isn't exactly preventing us from adequately investing in the squad is he?

AW wields enormous power at AFC. Every decision big or small is influenced by him or his set 'guidelines'. Stan himself has said that he leaves all football related decisions to Wenger and Co.

Who knows what Stan is doing? What is clear though is that he doesn't judge his highly paid employee but the same standards as we fans do. That alone is enough for him to be more accountable than Wenger. The manager is not the owner of the club. He is allowed to wield more power than he should. At any other club he would have been pushed harder or pushed out. The owners need to demand trophies.

Captain wrote:
General wrote:

I don't think Xhaka or Mustafi (if it happens) are outright cash deals so you only need to consider the down payments.

Not really. Money is money; if he costs 30m and we haven't sold anyone, it's gone.

But in the majority of the transfer windows, we look to offset at least a part of the spending by selling players.

Our cash balance has been steadily growing year on year despite our relative increase in expenditure on players/wages.

Cannon wrote:

Well Stan isn't exactly preventing us from adequately investing in the squad is he?

AW wields enormous power at AFC. Every decision big or small is influenced by him or his set 'guidelines'. Stan himself has said that he leaves all football related decisions to Wenger and Co.

You may be right, but this isn't a football related decision. This is a financial one which is intrinsically linked to the valuation of the club. If we suddenly decided to extinguish our entire cash balance, Kroenke would have something to say (even if he may not oppose it).

All the evidence points to Wenger on this. Kroenke isn't likely, ever, to put extra money into the club, based on what he has done with his other teams, but he doesn't appear to have ever been a stumbling block preventing the club to use its own money. Wenger himself said, only a few weeks ago, that he sometimes has to calm Gazidis down regarding transfers! Gazza wants us to buy and invest, but Wenger is reluctant. Several board members have over the years spoken of never, ever refusing Wenger funds. Probably not entirely true, but probably not entirely false either.
There is of course a limit to how much we can spend; spending beyond our means doesn't seem to roll with what has been decided at board level, so that seems to be a no go. Wenger isn't anywhere near spending close to our limit though, and neither does he seem to want to. That is my take on the current situation at Arsenal. I don't think the overall policy regarding spending is likely to change with a new manager, but I'm also pretty sure a manager who asks for more money to spend will receive just that.

Mirth wrote:
Cannon wrote:

Well Stan isn't exactly preventing us from adequately investing in the squad is he?

AW wields enormous power at AFC. Every decision big or small is influenced by him or his set 'guidelines'. Stan himself has said that he leaves all football related decisions to Wenger and Co.

You may be right, but this isn't a football related decision. This is a financial one which is intrinsically linked to the valuation of the club. If we suddenly decided to extinguish our entire cash balance, Kroenke would have something to say (even if he may not oppose it).

You are saying this NOW. It became a financial decision only when it is becoming apparent that we are under performing on the football front. Which is what a lot of people had been saying for the last 5 years but were being dismissed by citing various reasons including financial ones such as need for CL places. 

So pardon me for pointedly blaming wenger for all evidence points to him being solely responsible for all football related matters.

I think the spending policy would like change with a new manager depending on who we recruit. When we inevitably fall out of the top 4, the club would have to decide whether it wants to invest its way back into the top or continue with the status quo. The latter would likely push us further down the table and impact our brand image. The current spending policy is perfect for Kroenke because there is zero pressure on his own resources. Once we fall out of the top 4 and start losing out on revenue, they will change tact quickly to stop them from dipping into their own pockets to save their investment. Long term, we could become Liverpool.

Cannon wrote:
Mirth wrote:

You may be right, but this isn't a football related decision. This is a financial one which is intrinsically linked to the valuation of the club. If we suddenly decided to extinguish our entire cash balance, Kroenke would have something to say (even if he may not oppose it).

You are saying this NOW. It became a financial decision only when it is becoming apparent that we are under performing on the football front. Which is what a lot of people had been saying for the last 5 years but were being dismissed by citing various reasons including financial ones such as need for CL places.

So pardon me for pointedly blaming wenger for all evidence points to him being solely responsible for all football related matters.

I'm not disavowing Wenger from blame on any football related matters at all.

However, you're using football related matters as an extremely broad term based on a throwaway comment from Kroenke. Until you clarify the scope and extent of football related matters that you think Kroenke stays out of, this won't go anywhere.

Rex wrote:

All the evidence points to Wenger on this. Kroenke isn't likely, ever, to put extra money into the club, based on what he has done with his other teams, but he doesn't appear to have ever been a stumbling block preventing the club to use its own money. Wenger himself said, only a few weeks ago, that he sometimes has to calm Gazidis down regarding transfers! Gazza wants us to buy and invest, but Wenger is reluctant. Several board members have over the years spoken of never, ever refusing Wenger funds. Probably not entirely true, but probably not entirely false either.
There is of course a limit to how much we can spend; spending beyond our means doesn't seem to roll with what has been decided at board level, so that seems to be a no go. Wenger isn't anywhere near spending close to our limit though, and neither does he seem to want to. That is my take on the current situation at Arsenal. I don't think the overall policy regarding spending is likely to change with a new manager, but I'm also pretty sure a manager who asks for more money to spend will receive just that.

Do you have a link to that bit about Wenger calming down Gazidis? Would be very interested to read it. 

Pretty sure Gazidis has said Kroenke encourages them to spend money. They have to inform him before pulling the trigger on bigger deals, of course, but I doubt he is the one slowing us down here. Gazidis spoke of this in an interview, and said of the Özil deal that the only thing Kroenke said when informed was 'do it'.
No, I can't be arsed to track down this particular interview. 🙂

A lot of it is PR too. It's upto an individual to chose what to believe. What I don't get is how can an owner be so indifferent to lack of success. For me, Kroenke is more culpable than Wenger. Is he scared of Wenger? To confront him, to ask him to do whatever it takes to try and get a trophy home.

Wenger is good business for someone who sees Arsenal as an investment. Every year he continues to grow the club brand, puts money into the bank, and seems unswayed no matter how competitive the league gets. We'be never missed out on big commercial opportunities like the Champions League. Kroenke's shares are worth more today than what he paid to get them.

Our line of increased spending is roughly in line with everyone else's outside the big teams in Premier League. It got bumped up when the new tv money arrived, and our frugality in previous windows left us with some extra cash on top when a wild Özil appeared. Rightly or wrongly we operate a certain way and people, including Wenger, go about doing their job. I don't think things are going to be vastly different under a new manager next season (or whenever Wenger goes). Maybe we'll be quicker to sell some players again to recuperate fees, but it's not like we're going to start signing Pogbas.

Klaus wrote:

Wenger is good business for someone who sees Arsenal as an investment. Every year he continues to grow the club brand, puts money into the bank, and seems unswayed no matter how competitive the league gets. We'be never missed out on big commercial opportunities like the Champions League. Kroenke's shares are worth more today than what he paid to get them.

Our line of increased spending is roughly in line with everyone else's outside the big teams in Premier League. It got bumped up when the new tv money arrived, and our frugality in previous windows left us with some extra cash on top when a wild Özil appeared. Rightly or wrongly we operate a certain way and people, including Wenger, go about doing their job. I don't think things are going to be vastly different under a new manager next season (or whenever Wenger goes). Maybe we'll be quicker to sell some players again to recuperate fees, but it's not like we're going to start signing Pogbas.

Maybe five years ago. Not anymore. His failure on the pitch is directly impacting the clubs revenues and brand. For example had we won the league anytime in the last three years we would have not only increased our income, the club brand would have been boosted significantly. Coaches like Simone, Anchelotti and arguably even Mourinho would represent more value at this moment.

If we had sorted ownership issues, it would not take a genuis to figure out that prepaying our outstanding debt and investing in the team/squad would significantly boost our income and club valuation.

Agree on that, however Klaus' point is that the value of the club is increasing year on year anyway which is what Kroenke seems to care about.

Of course winning titles would provide more of a boost but Kroenke is just as conservative as the rest of them

have you ever heard a manager from a supposed top club explain his lack of spending is down to having the pay the gardener, the cooks, and the parking attendants? im seriously still trying to comprehend how he could have said that yesterday.

the question is still unanswered, and i really hope there are tough questions asked at the next shareholder meeting.

He's just worried Tennyson will write a scathing review of his managerial decisions.

Noble 600.