Ozil contract talks: Page 19 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Ozil contract talks

Klaus

dreamlord wrote:
Lol, Cesc used to win us games singehandedly as a fucking midfielder while being surrounded with dross like Denilson, Eboue, Diaby and Bendtner.

Özil did that for an entire season last year surrounded by the likes of Chamberlain, Coquelin and Flamini.

Cesc played for us almost a decade. A lot of the time he was surrounded by genuine quality and still disappeared. Once Wenger moved him out of midfield that was it for him. The little twat spent half of the season just cruising, year after year, all while trying to engineer his grand move back to Spain. We didn't win a single thing with him as a prominent figure in the team which summarises him perfectly in retrospect.

SimplyThePest

Conte said that they are doing a lot tactical and positional work with Fabregas. His time at Arsenal ruined him, IMO. Played too much, too young and was relied upon to bail teams short on quality out far too often. Under a different manager, I suspect he may have become a top central midfielder, instead of being shoved forward and told to score goals as he was at Arsenal towards the end.

Sicario

SimplyThePest wrote:
Conte said that they are doing a lot tactical and positional work with Fabregas. His time at Arsenal ruined him, IMO. Played too much, too young and was relied upon to bail teams short on quality out far too often. Under a different manager, I suspect he may have become a top central midfielder, instead of being shoved forward and told to score goals as he was at Arsenal towards the end.

Catch 22, would he have the experience if he was not thrown in at the deep end? In hindsight do you think he would change his career? Cesc has won literally everything in the game bar the CL and he is still in his twenties.

Look, I was hurt as fuck when he left us in the summer of 2011 and I was hurt again when he showed up at Chelsea but I do remember him going crazy and full of passion when he scored v Man Utd+ Milan away in 07/08 and Spurs the following season (after that stunning solo goal). I know they are two different personalities, but still waiting for similar moments with Ozil.

SimplyThePest

He's a very good player, I believe he would've had the opportunity (just my view, though).

Wenger got what he needed out of him to fulfil his job description - keep Arsenal in the top four. That involved shoving him up behind the striker and taking advantage of his vision, final ball and ability to chip in with goals. That was cheaper than spending time developing him as a central midfielder and signing attackers to do the job Fabregas ended up doing. The lack of tactical development came back to hurt him when he ended up having no role at Barcelona and hasn't been consistent starter at Chelsea for some time.

Irishgunner

Fabregas should never have been moved forward, honestly could have been one of the great central midfielders.

Ray

He could have been one of the greats if he stayed at Arsenal under Wenger but wouldn't have the trophies he has.

arsedocmd

possibly would've made a legit great player out of theo too.

Clrnc

El Genio de Oviedo wrote:
Ozil is a very talented player but not a great one. If he's off in the summer, I'll be sad only because I know that he is unlikely to be replaced properly, not because he's been uniformly successful here

Yep. His ceiling meant fuck all if we doesnt have the execution and effort most of the time.

There's always a different standard used for Ozil when it comes to judging him from Arsenal fans. It's funny how we used to try and conjure up excuses for him. It's always his teammates fault his manager's fault the pitch fault, even when he has had extremely poor games without much effort. Just watch him like any other player as a general football fan and you realise how poor he has been. Even when he was scoring at the start of the season, his all round general play is often underwhelming.

Burnwinter

Klaus wrote:
Cesc played for us almost a decade. A lot of the time he was surrounded by genuine quality and still disappeared. Once Wenger moved him out of midfield that was it for him. The little twat spent half of the season just cruising, year after year, all while trying to engineer his grand move back to Spain. We didn't win a single thing with him as a prominent figure in the team which summarises him perfectly in retrospect.

Cesc didn't disappear any more often than Ozil. True story.

Gazza M

Burnwinter wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Cesc played for us almost a decade. A lot of the time he was surrounded by genuine quality and still disappeared. Once Wenger moved him out of midfield that was it for him. The little twat spent half of the season just cruising, year after year, all while trying to engineer his grand move back to Spain. We didn't win a single thing with him as a prominent figure in the team which summarises him perfectly in retrospect.

Cesc didn't disappear any more often than Ozil. True story.

agreed. as a body of work i'd take cesc's first 4 full years over ozil's. showed up in big moments more often, and actually drove the team on when he was at his best. in my eyes he didn't really let us down majorly until the 10/11 season. and i can't stand that slimy fecker

Lukazan

Burnwinter wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Cesc played for us almost a decade. A lot of the time he was surrounded by genuine quality and still disappeared. Once Wenger moved him out of midfield that was it for him. The little twat spent half of the season just cruising, year after year, all while trying to engineer his grand move back to Spain. We didn't win a single thing with him as a prominent figure in the team which summarises him perfectly in retrospect.

Cesc didn't disappear any more often than Ozil. True story.

Yeah and, as per my original point, when he did it was never to the extent Ozil did. Fabregas at his best was never only "2/3rds" the player Ozil is either but bloody hell I wish that was true.

Anyway, I find discussing Cesc and his time at Arsenal on here a pointless affair. The way he left has completely blinded some people to what an absolutely phenomenal player he was that you'd be forgiven for thinking we were talking about Denilson ffs. I didn't like the way Fabregas left and certainly have no love for him now but I'm also not a 10 year old on a playground. His actions change nothing. He had some genuine shite around him for much of his time at the club and completely carried us at times. Yet when Ozil has a stinker it's the players around him.. Funny that.

Qwiss

Lukazan wrote:
that you'd be forgiven for thinking we were talking about Denilson ffs. I didn't like the way Fabregas left and certainly have no love for him now but I'm also not a 10 year old on a playground.

Oh yeah its just like all those conversations we have about whether Denilson or Ozil was/is better.

Segway

Fabregas is a cunt but he was phenomenal for us. Miles better than Özil has been.

Qwiss

El Genio de Oviedo wrote:
Ozil is a very talented player but not a great one.

Same as Cesc. Both have careers where they've been close to being greats but never pushed on.

MistaT

Cesc made a donkey like Adebayor look great, where as Ozil hasn't exactly made Giroud or Sanchez look better.

General

Ozil came close to breaking Henry's long standing assist record last season despite the lack of an outstanding goal scorer. That squad Ade excelled in and hit 30goals is the most balanced squad we've had in over a decade. The idea that Fabregas always played in poor squads in not true. He had a peak Flamini running around doing his donkey work for him and one of the best dribblers in the PL at the time.

Klaus

And he also had Rosicky. Touré was one of the best defenders in Europe that year. Gallas was boss up until the Birmingham incident. Sagna, Clichy, Eduardo for a while... that team was packed with quality.

I'm not gonna keep pressing this because honestly what's the point, but Fabregas never had a season like the one Özil had last year. I think that should be immediately obvious to anyone.

Clrnc wrote:
There's always a different standard used for Ozil when it comes to judging him from Arsenal fans.

Oh there definitely is, but it's not because they overrate him.

General

And people talk about his performance away to Milan but forget Theo run almost the full length of the pitch and laid it on a platter for Adebayor to score.

ElGeniodeOviedo

Fair point regarding Ozil and Fabregas' top seasons here.

Don't agree that Arsenal fans are harsher on Ozil than the average neutral though. Maybe at the current moment, but fan mood is always more fickle and hyperbolic than the outside observer

evoh1

Sanchez should go and play for a real team, we are hopeless and he deserves more. For ozil nothing.

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