Lets see if Ozil passes the ball straight to one of the Bayern players before we start saying he's worse than Cescs lowest eb.

Meh, he's already been far worse than that. Extended periods of uselessness are for me worse than individual moments of madness.

He didn't give away a win vs Spurs by throwing his hand at the ball either.

Qwiss is right. By being totally invisible, Özil doesn't give us any examples like that.

Fabregas benefitted from a personal defensive service and the team being built around him. Playing the number 10 role is a bigger task.

Compare ozil's and fabregas' output (goals and assists) here and tell me that fabregas didn't deliver when needed. Ozil on the other hand gets away with his lack of impact because he is a playmaker Well cesc was better at that as well.

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

Qwiss is right. By being totally invisible, Özil doesn't give us any examples like that.

Guys, Cesc was White Jesus. I had a lot of time for him. He just suffered from playing with 5 or 6 Crystal Palace-quality players at a time.

Cesc at his best was roughly two thirds of the player Özil is. We just need to stop fuck around and build a proper team around the good footballers we've got.

Ozil disappears to often, Klaus. I used to be his most vociferous defender amongst my serious football-watching mates. And then I realised I was just enamoured of his silky skills. He is actually very unreliable. He barely did a thing in the new year last season after having a superlative first 4 months. And this season, his instruction to play on the shoulder of central defenders has dulled his game. Plus he adds nothing defenisvely in the middle of the park as a 10, which has sparked the calls for him to play at 7.

He's a marvelous player, but he's not cutting it with Wenger's ragtime band. If we had a Naingollan/Kante-style midfield with two men who owned the centre of the park, he'd be lovely. But in a Coq/Xhaka/Ox/etc. situation, he looks a luxury.

Claudius wrote:

He's a marvelous player, but he's not cutting it with Wenger's ragtime band. If we had a Naingollan/Kante-style midfield with two men who owned the centre of the park, he'd be lovely. But in a Coq/Xhaka/Ox/etc. situation, he looks a luxury.

I always find this argument strange. If he needs to be surrounded by World Class players to perform consistently, he's just not as good as he's made out to be.

People have some serious rose tinted glasses if they think Cesc didn't disappear too.

est wrote:

Claudius wrote:

He's a marvelous player, but he's not cutting it with Wenger's ragtime band. If we had a Naingollan/Kante-style midfield with two men who owned the centre of the park, he'd be lovely. But in a Coq/Xhaka/Ox/etc. situation, he looks a luxury.

I always find this argument strange. If he needs to be surrounded by World Class players to perform consistently, he's just not as good as he's made out to be.

Everyone needs teammates to perform. That's why it's a team game and not an individual sport. Last season Alexis malfunctioned, this year it's Özil. The one constant is the bloke in charge of the team who keeps chopping and changing because he can't form a coherent unit with what he's got.

Qwiss! wrote:

People have some serious rose tinted glasses if they think Cesc didn't disappear too.

Not only did he disappear, he left big holes behind him because he was nigh on useless off the ball.

Lol, Cesc used to win us games singehandedly as a fucking midfielder while being surrounded with dross like Denilson, Eboue, Diaby and Bendtner. There's just no competition for who was the better player for us (note that I'm not talking about their talent levels, just who performed better for Arsenal).

At least Ozils actually won us a couple of trophies.

dreamlord wrote:

Lol, Cesc used to win us games singehandedly as a fucking midfielder while being surrounded with dross like Denilson, Eboue, Diaby and Bendtner. There's just no competition for who was the better player for us (note that I'm not talking about their talent levels, just who performed better for Arsenal).

100 per cent agree. Comparisons of relevant teammates kills this argument I'm afraid.

Qwiss! wrote:

At least Ozils actually won us a couple of trophies.

I don't think that is what he will be remembered for if he leaves this summer.

Ozil will never eclipse Cesc's performance v Milan away this time 9 years go (fuck time flys!).

This is a bit of a boring debate, they played in slightly different roles, at different ages, different teammates and the makeup of the league was different. Even at ostensibly the same position, "number 10", Ozil plays more as a second striker who runs off the striker and floats out to the wings than Fabregas, who was more of a traditional advanced midfielder. Fabregas did become more like this, but at Barca.

Ozil is a very talented player but not a great one. If he's off in the summer, I'll be sad only because I know that he is unlikely to be replaced properly, not because he's been uniformly successful here