Ozil contract talks: Page 103 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Ozil contract talks

goon

Qwiss! wrote:
goon wrote:
It's odd given his past stance on getting rid of players who wanted to leave. I never appreciated or agreed with the stance it at the time but it was probably the right stance.

He probably feels that he needs to justify not selling them in the summer by playing them. I think the fact that he left the possbility of them leaving in Jan open is quite telling, he probably knows it was an error.

I don't think you need a stance thats set in stone. It should be a player by player basis. If one of them hits a great run of form then great, use it. However there is no real advantage to sticking by them when they aren't committed. If they lack motivation provide some by making them earn their starts.

Problem is it's impossible to know how a player will react. I was convinced that Alexis would continue to produce and I think he is trying, but he looks like he's playing with a cloud over his head. I think having a general principle is better, if nothing else it sends a good message to the other players.

That being said, once the decision to keep them has been made then yeah I agree, there's ways to manage it. Picking them (and keeping them on for 90 mins) regardless isn't the best.

Clrnc

Qwiss! wrote:
Segway wrote:
Well Özil did have a very good game vs Everton so it was not unreasonable to start him at Etihad and Sanchez is our best player. Wenger would be shooting himself in the foot if he dropped them. He made the decision to keep them and now he has to commit to that decision.

Ozil should always be dropped away against the big sides IMO. Everton was an easy game, of course you expect Ozil to perform in those circumstances. He almost never does when the games tougher though, when the oppositions quality means we need big moments from our big players.

Sanchez is our best player and I agree it made sense to start him yesterday and I don't think he was half as bad as Ozil. TBH I'd keep playing Alexis. I'd drop Ozil for Spurs though.

Sample size is not the biggest, but we have always fought well without Ozil in big away games.

Anyway, sure you can start him and hope for the best, ignoring his previous poor performances in big games. What's more inexplicable is leaving him on after what he produced.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

I detest both of them. Ozil has been a flop the entire time he's been with us and Sanchez is a complete cunt, capable of near-Messi heights but just as capable of gifting 5 yard passes to the opposition.

Gurgen

Özil has been the most creative player in the league since he joined us, Sanchez is rarely capable of near-Messi heights, both are cunts and both were terrible yesterday.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Exaggeration on the Sanchez part obviously. And Ozil is still a flop, just look at how flimsy he is game in, game out.

arsedocmd

Gurgen wrote:
Özil has been the most creative player in the league since he joined us, Sanchez is rarely capable of near-Messi heights, both are cunts and both were terrible yesterday.

why is ozil a cunt?

Klaus

goon wrote:
Anyone else finding it tough to support these two? It would be find if they could make us forget with sublime footy, but in its absence I’d rather watch Welbeck, Theo, Jack or Iwobi.

I'd probably be angry with them if I could be bothered getting upset anymore, but I can't. I just think it's sad that this is what we've become. They're big culprits because both of them are good enough to play for any side in the world on their day, but they didn't come here thinking they'd cruise along in the 5th best team in the country. They came here thinking Arsenal was ambitious, and ever since the club has done its best to subdue their hunger.

We could probably swap them for Theo and Iwobi and end up 6th instead of 5th this year. It wouldn't matter much in the end, but it'd just chip away some more dignity from the club, and there isn't a whole lot left right now.

Gurgen

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:
Exaggeration on the Sanchez part obviously. And Ozil is still a flop, just look at how flimsy he is game in, game out.

Thanks, I'll just look at verifiable facts instead.

Gurgen

arsedoc md wrote:
Gurgen wrote:
Özil has been the most creative player in the league since he joined us, Sanchez is rarely capable of near-Messi heights, both are cunts and both were terrible yesterday.

why is ozil a cunt?

Because he obviously can't really be bothered any more. I understand we're shit and he's leaving, but he has a contract and should work for his pay.

Qwiss

Ozil has had one great season as an Arsenal player in 15/16. Apart from that he's been bang average. That season ups the stats being quoted here, as does his fitness for most of his time here. Take away that season and judge him on per 90 metrics and he hasn't even been that impressive as a creative force.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Gurgen wrote:
Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:
Exaggeration on the Sanchez part obviously. And Ozil is still a flop, just look at how flimsy he is game in, game out.

Thanks, I'll just look at verifiable facts instead.

Marcus Stewart was the Premier League's second highest goalscorer for the 2000/2001 season.

Clrnc

Qwiss! wrote:
Ozil has had one great season as an Arsenal player in 15/16. Apart from that he's been bang average. That season ups the stats being quoted here, as does his fitness for most of his time here. Take away that season and judge him on per 90 metrics and he hasn't even been that impressive as a creative force.

The chances created stat is pretty hard to judge too. Say for example against Everton, he created 8 or 9 chances but out of those only 3 is presentable. Most of these chances came from the fact he was already in the box in a good position, another player would have simply shot and scored but he made one final pass to make the angle harder for our player to score and easier for opposition keepers to close down the angle.

I would wager a bet a lot of his chances created came from such reluctant to shoot scenario over the years

Klaus

Or maybe the chances simply aren't converted more often because he plays with teammates who just blatantly aren't good enough, who screw up simple first touches and fluff obvious goalscoring opportunities because they can't strike a ball cleanly. I'd look to our embarrassing lack of technical quality before I started pointing fingers at the guy who consistently does what no one else in the team does. Özil has created both the most chances and the most clearcut chances in Premier League since he arrived. He has also completed the most successful crosses and assisted the most goals. You can theorise about what those stats mean all you want, but there's no denying that he's effective on a level that other players are not.

Clrnc

But how is it helpful to be effective only against relegation fodders? We are a team who has traditionally created a lot of chances over the years no matter who plays for us. It's one thing to be a flat track bully, another thing to stand up and be counted when the going gets tough. It doesn't matter for him to create 20 chances against the Burnleys and Palace to pad up the stats, it only matters in the hardest games where we need him to show his true quality but 99% of the time he goes missing.

Remember, we are not talking about him working hard only. Simple 5 yard passes and simple execution he was totally terrible. This is not the first time he performed like this in a big match. It's no use looking like a technically excellent player on your own backyard when you look amateur amongst the best. His technical ability was embarrassing on Sunday under pressure, and even dribbling out of play under no pressure.

Klaus

Clrnc wrote:
But how is it helpful to be effective only against relegation fodders?

But he's not. This is just you making shit up.

Clrnc

You can extend that to mid-table teams if you wish, doesn't change the fact he's awful when the going gets tough.

Klaus

I mean a five second google search says that you're factually wrong:

He was MOTM in a CL final for Real too and Germany's best player in the World Cup final. Point me to one other Arsenal player with those big-game merits. He doesn't pull up trees in big games at Arsenal, sure, but that's because we're a bloody embarrassment as a team. He's shown up plenty of times. You're just ignoring them. Fair enough, you don't like the guy, but please stop with the bullshit Clrnc.

flobaba

Go at Klaus' boy would you Clrnc?

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
I mean a five second google search says that you're factually wrong:

He was MOTM in a CL final for Real too and Germany's best player in the World Cup final. Point me to one other Arsenal player with those big-game merits. He doesn't pull up trees in big games at Arsenal, sure, but that's because we're a bloody embarrassment as a team. He's shown up plenty of times. You're just ignoring them. Fair enough, you don't like the guy, but please stop with the bullshit Clrnc.

Ever noticed those games had a common denominator? It was all inclusive of a great team performance in general from many others and he was just one of those who played well. It was all home games that we were not with backs against wall. (He was absolutely terrible against United by the way, doesn't matter if he scored) That's my point, he can play well when the opposition allow us to play, but when it's a tough away game and you expect him to be a difference maker he stinks up the joint.

Like I said, he was one of my favourite players when he joined and I don't even dislike the guy but he has been so bad. If it makes you feel better then by all means go ahead and think he's a big game changer, paid off his transfer fee by having 4 top years and is deserving of the huge pay rise he is asking for. You can also pretend that he is a MOTM in the UCL final even though he didn't play in any and famously went missing for Werder in the UEL Final 2009. I will leave it here.

Klaus

Clrnc wrote:
Ever noticed those games had a common denominator? It was all inclusive of a great team performance in general from many others and he was just one of those who played well.

😆 This has gone from "only being effective against relegation fodder", and racking up all the chances and assists against Burnley, to being effective in some big games, but they were "all home games that we were not with backs against wall".

So to sum it up we have a player who has created more chances and provided more assists than anyone else in Premier League since he arrived (but most of them were bad assists so they don't count the same as a de Bruyne assist), who is also one of the biggest flop signings of all time and is literally useless against any opposition above midtable, except for all those times he was in fact effective in big games, which were all games where everyone else was doing great anyway (because that totally happens a lot at Arsenal), and the fact that we looked good as a team was of course never partly down to him. He cheapskated on the Walcotts and the Welbecks I assume.

You're ridiculous, Clrnc. Who the fuck has the time to waste on this dross, honestly.

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