Ozil contract talks: Page 104 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Ozil contract talks

Burnwinter

Whoa, this got intense.

Zen riddle: one assists, and one scores. Which is a good player?

Qwiss

Sine he has arrived here there has only been one season where Ozil has a better assists per minute ratio in the PL than Ramsey. Generally Ozil is no more creative than Ramsey and Alexis and they both do a hell of a lot more in the rest of their game.

The argument isn't that Ozil is absolutely useless and never does anything its that he doesn't do enough, regularly enough especially against the top 6 PL sides away from home. He is looking to be the best paid player at Arsenal, he isn't showing himself to be worth it. You have to do more than tear into a dejected Everton side to ask for that money and expect the fans to back you.

goon

Yeah, aside from that 1 season he's managed 6, 10 and 11. Not awful but it's not amazing either for the king of assists.

Though that's not the issue for me. Ozil struggles with the basics of his game more than anything. One thing that really surprises me is the lack of technical consistency in his game. The quality of his general passing or touch is sometimes Walcott esque.

Klaus

Another big game non-performance to add to the list.

Rohit

It's the new contract. He signs and commits, and no one questions why his shoulders were not upright.

Ricky1985

Ridiculous stat.

I know its a wildly unpopular opinion right now but I think he's a clear level above the other Number 10s in the League when he's on his game. I've watched de Bruyne 2 or 3 times in the last few weeks and he's not fit to lace Özil's boots, his goalscoring ability masks a lot of other things he simply isn't top class at. It's the reverse situation for Özil.

Rohit

Claudius

Ricky1985 wrote:
Ridiculous stat.

I know its a wildly unpopular opinion right now but I think he's a clear level above the other Number 10s in the League when he's on his game. I've watched de Bruyne 2 or 3 times in the last few weeks and he's not fit to lace Özil's boots, his goalscoring ability masks a lot of other things he simply isn't top class at. It's the reverse situation for Özil.

De Bruyne is probably going to win the Player of the Year award at this rate. Ozil is an amazing player on his day, but he needs that day to be more frequent if he's going to be as impactful as De Bruyne. Ask 10 neutrals to pick between the two and come back to me.

Ricky1985

I don't care what 10 neutrals would say in all honesty. And I care even less about who gets named Player of the Year.

Özil is at a low ebb, on a struggling team, with some seriously questionable team mates to try and work with. I'm not excusing his poor form but there are obviously mitigating circumstances. De Bruyne is at least a level below in my view. He doesn't have anything like the touch, vision, technique, balance, or any of the genius Özil has. Similar story with Christian Eriksen, who is another good but not quite great player, but they can both bang it with either foot when given a yard and that ups their standing considerably.

Claudius

But he gets on the ball and controls the pace of the game more often. And did the same in Germany.

I have written very often (you can search) that Wenger does Ozil absolutely no favours with his rubbish team selections and buying, but even when you control for that, over the last 5 years, on the on the whole I think he should have delivered more than what we have seen. He is better than what he has given us, which is what frustrates me greatly. But we can't just sit here and rave about potential. Potential doesn't put points in the bag.

Klaus

Another way to look at it is that we've won three FA cups since he arrived, Claude. Not saying it was only down to him, but that's the quantifiable difference of Arsenal before/with Özil if you want to talk about points and silverware. We went ten years without a single trophy before that. We also finished 2nd one year which is the best we've done since 03/04.

Shady

I think De Bruyne is now better. Passing isn't as good as Ozil's, but the goalscoring is a pretty huge asset to a player. He's also remarkably two-footed. He deserves his current plaudits.

Ricky1985

Claudius wrote:
But he gets on the ball and controls the pace of the game more often. And did the same in Germany.

I have written very often (you can search) that Wenger does Ozil absolutely no favours with his rubbish team selections and buying, but even when you control for that, over the last 5 years, on the on the whole I think he should have delivered more than what we have seen. He is better than what he has given us, which is what frustrates me greatly. But we can't just sit here and rave about potential. Potential doesn't put points in the bag.

I don't agree, Özil is the guy that controls games, de Bruyne is more of an impact player - his delivery is superb; both at set pieces and from out wide in open play and he scores a reasonable number of goals. At the top level, against the very good teams, he doesn't have the intelligence, positioning, close control, weight of pass or vision to act as the fulcrum of a team's attack. Özil can and has done exactly that the very highest level and against the very best teams.

What we Bruyne does against schmucks in the Premier League when surrounded by half a billion pounds worth of talent, doesn't mean much to me at all. He separates himself from other good players in the games where it's more even and he's facing top players. To give two recent examples of where he has struggled, check how he played against Napoli away or the other week against us. Horrendous performances in both (his goal against us aside, it masked a very average display) - and both sides are a long way from being near the best sides out there.

Qwiss

Shady wrote:
I think De Bruyne is now better. Passing isn't as good as Ozil's, but the goalscoring is a pretty huge asset to a player. He's also remarkably two-footed. He deserves his current plaudits.

And he plays deeper more often, starts more moves, defends more, controls the game more, etc And most importantly he's far, far more consistent.

Ozil was great today though. Showed exactly what we want from him. Hopefully he does more often now.

Qwiss

Ricky1985 wrote:
What we Bruyne does against schmucks in the Premier League

What? He's been excellent in every big game they've played in the league this year. He was their best player against us. Won them the match against Chelsea. Created 2 goals against Liverpool.

Tony Montana

Ricky you're very hyperbolic.

Ozil played really well today. MOTM performance. That's great.

De Bruyne is an excellent player and more consistent than Ozil. Whether he's more talented doesn't matter because De Bruyne is more impactful as you have admitted yourself.

Let's just be easy with that.

Ricky1985

I'm alright with my own opinion ta.

How Özil played today is nothing to do with anything. I think there is more than a bit of the Stevie G syndrome with De Bruyne, excellent though he is (and Gerrard was to be fair). As a Number 10, a game controller, a creative hub, Ozil is a full level up from him, in my opinion.

How Özil has managed to create the most chances in the League having not played anywhere near as many games, and in a steuggling team, is still pretty staggering, even with all I have said though.

What would he do if he switched with de Bruyne?

Herbas

Ricky1985 wrote:
I don't agree, Özil is the guy that controls games, de Bruyne is more of an impact player - his delivery is superb; both at set pieces and from out wide in open play and he scores a reasonable number of goals. At the top level, against the very good teams, he doesn't have the intelligence, positioning, close control, weight of pass or vision to act as the fulcrum of a team's attack. Özil can and has done exactly that the very highest level and against the very best teams.

What we Bruyne does against schmucks in the Premier League when surrounded by half a billion pounds worth of talent, doesn't mean much to me at all. He separates himself from other good players in the games where it's more even and he's facing top players. To give two recent examples of where he has struggled, check how he played against Napoli away or the other week against us. Horrendous performances in both (his goal against us aside, it masked a very average display) - and both sides are a long way from being near the best sides out there.

Maybe so, but definitely not at Arsenal. You really can't say that Ozil is being undone by other players in majority of tight/big Arsenal games.

Claudius

Ricky, how many City games have you actually watched this season?

Ray

On the ball Ozil and De Bruyne is very close, I would go with Ozil tbh but either way they are almost identical in goals scored and chances created, you can't blame Ozil for his team mates missing chances.

Off the ball though De Bruyne is better, defensively and winning the ball back, to start attacks, something Ozil contributed against Spurs but that was the first time I've seen him do that in his 3 seasons here.

If Ozil can offer similar defensive work rate more regularly he would be the best player in the league, maybe he isn't motivated enough to do it consistently.

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