UK Politics Omnishambles: Page 106 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

UK Politics Omnishambles

JazzG

Nicola Sturgeon has resigned as Scottish First Minister!

The biggest winner here politically is Keir Starmer, his prospects of winning back Scotland and thus an overall majority have gone up massively.

Coombs

Another opportunity for corporatist neolibs to make another center-right shift, filling the void left by the nominal conservatives.

Burnwinter

Starmer literally released some statement confirming Corbyn's final excommunication from Labour on the same day, they won't let him stand in Islington again.

The gammon pride Starmer has taken in fraudulently kneecapping the left wing of his own party is repellent. Utter shitheel machine man, who announces with his every movement that he'll never make a damn thing better about his country.

JazzG

Burnwinter That is politics mate, Corbyn also fucked over a few of the 'moderate' candidates to get his people in so he knows how it works.

There are Labour MPs who are loyal to Corbyn who will never accept Starmer, so he has a choice. Either try to win them over, which looks unlikely or he needs to ditch them. He knows he has one hand on prize, so expect a few others to be burned because even if it does cost him some votes he still has enough to become PM. Once he becomes PM those guys will be easier to handle.

Burnwinter

JazzG That is politics mate, Corbyn also fucked over a few of the 'moderate' candidates to get his people in so he knows how it works.

You're talking as if what people actually stand for and hope to achieve doesn't matter. Isn't that what politics is?

Whose head the bullet goes into actually matters, even if it's the same bullet. The ends don't always justify the means, but if you've got no ends at all beyond consolidating managerialism ...

Anyway, it's laughable to imply Corbyn pursued an agenda against his party opponents with anything like the enthusiasm—and corruption—Starmer has done. If only he had, some might say. Momentum activists urged Corbyn to push hard on deselections when his people controlled the NEC, and they never did.

Starmer is a creep. Is there even one pledge among the many he made during his leadership campaign that still stands as policy?

banduan

been wondering that too Burnsy, are people really gonna be voting Starmer because his banners are red?

JazzG

banduan He'll get in because people are sick of the Conservatives and he is taking the 'centrist' approach.

JazzG

Go and read up about what happened with Jas Athwal and how he was fucked over by Corybn loyalists to get their man in. Corbyn is just as bad, whether you want to accept it or not. Politics isn't about hope, they are all the same mate. All scumbags of varying levels.

I don't even like Starmer, bland politician who has surrounded himself by Gordon Brown's old team. All good him talking about taking a stand on Anti Semitism now but the guy was in the shadow cabinet while it was going on!

Burnwinter

JazzG Go and read up about what happened with Jas Athwal

I'm familiar. Compare the forced resignations or sackings from the shadow front bench of pretty much every member of the Socialist Campaign Group who's ever been on it under Starmer—at least ten MPs, a number of whom have suffered being absurdly jacketed as antisemites.

That's leaving aside Corbyn's own treatment. The Labour Files series is worth a watch, it relatively carefully documents about another ten Jas Athwals, along with plenty of other utterly shocking stuff ...

Tam

Which is probably the correct approach to power. Ignoring the individuals and parties, the society we have is not going to vote anyone into power from the left of where Starmer currently is.

goon

Starmer is doing what he needs to do to get in. That's pretty clear unless you also believe he's gone from being a Europhile to believing in Brexit all of a sudden. I find a lot of the things he does and says distasteful but am fully aware of which crowd he's playing to.

It's a country where so many of the institutions out there are and have been geared towards getting Conservatives in power and that's where the electorate is outside the urban areas. It's pretty clear to see that some of the areas Labour needs to win have no time at all for Corbyn, Europe and other political and social issues that you would expect Labour to proudly promote.

However, once you're in with a big majority and are able to improve the economy, you'll subtly be able to do what you actually want to do. Whether he will or not remains to be seen. And I have to say, the idea that this form of a Labour government is 'as bad as the Tories' is so far detached from the reality on the ground. Things were infinitely better under the last Labour government.

Coombs

goon However, once you're in with a big majority and are able to improve the economy, you'll subtly be able to do what you actually want to do.

This is desperately naive and has been proven patently wrong for a thousand years or more.

Burnwinter

goon Whether he will or not remains to be seen.

We need a "remind me of this post in June 2025" style feature on this forum.

Mirth

goon And I have to say, the idea that this form of a Labour government is 'as bad as the Tories' is so far detached from the reality on the ground. Things were infinitely better under the last Labour government.

Pretty much this - most people would happily live with the government they had from 1997 to 2010.

Anyway, if Labour have a chance in Scotland now they really will walk away with it.

FEBravo

goon you'll subtly be able to do what you actually want to do.

I get that. Genuine question though from a non-Brit: Do we actually know what he would "want to do"? I think that's Burnsy's point: that is not really clear other than getting into power.

Burnwinter

Once again however, no one would even care were Starmer capable of or interested in pushing forward the kind of (modest, incremental, decent, almost boringly rational) policy agenda Labour took to the election in 2019, and actually helping a few people. He isn't though, is he?

Coombs

Mirth Pretty much this - most people would happily live with the government they had from 1997 to 2010.

Seems me it was that government that paved the way for what we have now, what with the waging of global wars and all. You can't disconnect the parties that way - what we compromise has ramifications that often outlast any marginal gains.

goon

FEBravo who knows, maybe we'll find out whenever they release their manifesto. Personally think we'll see more of the 2019 manifesto implemented than Bursny is assuming.

Mirth

Coombs Fair point but that kind of hypothesis doesn't really go anywhere because there's so many variables both domestic and global that your average political analyst can go every which way. Of course I agree that they have a burden to share but you may as well blame pretty much every government for various failings of the current state.

My point was the outcomes for most services that your average citizen used were demonstrably better both in terms of outcomes but also in terms of execution compared to what came before and what came next. And generally speaking, no matter who the next Prime Minister is, most people care about what happen to them in their streets, hospitals and schools. Despite Britain's diminishing decade, there's enough resource to achieve those aims still. All it really needs is a government - left or right - that can execute against those wishes to win the votes of a fair number of people.

Burnwinter

There's a pretty solid argument you can't have a Blair without windfall prosperity, which is pretty much the opposite of the conditions.

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