UK Politics Omnishambles: Page 104 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

UK Politics Omnishambles

Tam

Mirth wrote:

They've confirmed that the choice will be put to the members so I think Boris will manage it and it gets around the awkward question of mandate. The guy is made of teflon.

Edit: Also why the fuck was there a 2 month leadership campaign when the whole thing can clearly be settled in a week.

Was there not a suggestion, or perhaps it was the reporter's/twitter's own inference, that if it was between two then the party would expect the trailing candidate to drop out and give the leading candidate a free run?

goon

Mirth wrote:
He's still their best chance of winning the next election. Meanwhile Sunak is probably the most competent person left. Party > country every time for them.

Feel like that might be a wildly misguided assumption from those MPs because if nothing else, it'll just cement the fractures within the Party. The sideshow will go on.

I actually think boring but semi competent would have been the way to go. The upside might be limited but so will the downside and it at least gives them a platform to sort themselves out.

Mirth

The sideshow will go on regardless - David Cameron tried to heal the divide, it backfired. May tried to compromise, it backfired. Boris Johnson overruled everyone and went directly to the public - that proved to be astute politics and would have seen him have 10 years in power if he wasn't such a lazy, morally bankrupt individual.

Now Boris Johnson has the easiest framing in the world - he'll once again attempt to pretend that he's the outsider with a significant mandate from the Red Wall and the party members despite being a bona fide insider. It'll be impossible to overrule him till the next election regardless of whether the MPs like him or not.

That said, Sunak is still the favourite and I think he's the right candidate to steady the ship personally. But Boris Johnson tends to win every vote he's put his hat in the ring for.

RocktheCasbah

If Alexander returns to Number 10, it just heightens the perception that the Tories are all out of ideas. He may improve their standing in the polls, but any one of us here would could hardly do worse than that maniac Truss. The privileges committee are due to meet next month - so he could be in and out almost as quickly as Truss, if not quicker - and where would that leave the party then?

Big Willie

Mirth wrote:
He's still their best chance of winning the next election. Meanwhile Sunak is probably the most competent person left. Party > country every time for them.

Let's be honest, a lot of that is more not wanting to give the keys of the country to the brown guy than anything else.

RocktheCasbah

You think? Or do you think the Tories can't get enough of Alexander's, uh, special sauce?

On a related note

Mirth

The Privileges Committee sounds more like the Mueller report - doubt there would be 100 MPs sticking their necks out if there truly was something explosive. Their craven and power hungry but not all of them are stupid.

May not play out well for Johnson afterall:

RocktheCasbah

Mirth wrote:
Their craven and power hungry but not all of them are stupid.

What about their behaviour over the entire time they've been in government has led you to that conclusion? As a result of the CONservative party, one economic disaster after another has been piled upon this country, the main one, of course, being the decision to leave the EU.

Mirth

I'm not going through the failings of the Tories of which they are many but specifically, the Privileges Committee investigation won't amount to anything. It's been hyped up like the Mueller inquiry but if you take a step back you'll see the burden of proof is too high, the Committee is not a court and the consequences are for the House to decide. And while these consequences can be anything from a slap on the wrist to expulsion, generally speaking it's quite hard to justify recommending the strongest possible punishment. And any MP backing Johnson would know this.

Big Willie

RocktheCasbah wrote:
You think? Or do you think the Tories can't get enough of Alexander's, uh, special sauce?

On a related note

In relation to the way he was passed over for Truss, then yes, I believe it's because he was brown. Instead of voting in probably the only semi competent person left MPs would rather vote for her despite her back catalogue of gaffs and incompetence over the years.

BoJo is a different matter altogether as he's quite popular and knows exactly which buttons to press so wouldn't say him winning out over Sunak is because of his complexion. He'd beat anyone in the party.

Mirth

Big Willie wrote:
In relation to the way he was passed over for Truss, then yes, I believe it's because he was brown. Instead of voting in probably the only semi competent person left MPs would rather vote for her despite her back catalogue of gaffs and incompetence over the years.

But the MPs did vote for Sunak over Truss by a comfortable margin

Plus in the member's vote Sunak managed to get 42% despite being the Chancellor who raised the tax burden to their highest level since the 1950s and the person who started the revolution against Boris. Race is always a factor but I'm not sure it's the determinant.

Big Willie

Mirth wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
In relation to the way he was passed over for Truss, then yes, I believe it's because he was brown. Instead of voting in probably the only semi competent person left MPs would rather vote for her despite her back catalogue of gaffs and incompetence over the years.

But the MPs did vote for Sunak over Truss by a comfortable margin

Plus in the member's vote Sunak managed to get 42% despite being the Chancellor who raised the tax burden to their highest level since the 1950s and the person who started the revolution against Boris. Race is always a factor but I'm not sure it's the determinant.

I mispoke, meant tory members. He lost the vote to her by quite a large margin. Considering how much of a laughing stock she was by that point and how most agreed that the most reasonable candidate was Sunak, I don't think it's a reach to say that he many didn't vote for him because he wasn't white.

goon

The fact that Sunak got close actually lends credence to the idea that him being Brown prevented him from getting the top job, because it wouldn’t have taken a large number of the Tory membership to not vote for him based on that reason alone. Rory Stewart, who I assume has met many of these members, pretty much said that’s one of the reasons why he didn’t expect Sunak to get the gig.

Mirth

But then you'll have to reconcile the fact that Kemi Badenoch was the most popular MP amongst the Tory members during the leadership race.

goon

These things are never black and white. I’m sure if Sunak was prepared to positioning himself on the far right on social issues like Badenoch, Patel and Braverman it becomes less of an issue.

Mirth

Speaking of, Badenoch has come out in favour of Sunak. Most of the influential MPs are behind Sunak now.

If Sunak gets over 150 MPs then even if Boris (or anyone else for that matter) wins, he'll be a lame duck.

Rumour has it that the two are working out a deal in the background as if this continues both will be wounded.

The process for appointing a party leader is farcical.

Burnwinter

"Johnson pulled out" is a bit of an unfortunate headline …

RocktheCasbah

Sunak it is.

All the UKIPs who defected to the Tory party must be in bits.

Mirth

Probably the worst candidate from a Labour perspective as there's virtually no difference between Sunak and Starmer.

From a historic point of view, it's a big deal. Cameron's effort to diversify the Tories led to diversity in Cabinet and after that it was only a matter of time before the opportunity presented itself for the first ethnic minority PM in UK history and one of the first across Europe after Varadkar and Costa.

goon

It’s good for the UK though. Hoping Sunak won’t go down the populist route to try and curry favour and we can finally move away from that horrid brand of politics.

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